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Zanshin67  
#1 Posted : 14 July 2016 17:47:48(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Zanshin67

Hi

just wanted to throw this open

when you feel you are getting nowhere with senior Management how do you Challenge and Change?

Audit? Inspection? Detailed report? Lead by example?
rick448  
#2 Posted : 14 July 2016 22:11:23(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
rick448

Drop a copy of the sentencing guidelines on the desk on your way out.
IanDakin  
#3 Posted : 15 July 2016 07:59:57(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
IanDakin

Talk to them directly and openly about what the criminal law is and what their moral duty is.

Face to face.

Audits, inspections and reports are only of use once you have commitment to complying with the law.

then do what Rick says.
RayRapp  
#4 Posted : 15 July 2016 08:06:53(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
RayRapp

Zanshin67 wrote:
Hi

just wanted to throw this open

when you feel you are getting nowhere with senior Management how do you Challenge and Change?

Audit? Inspection? Detailed report? Lead by example?


All of the above.

Ultimately if they are so entrenched there is little else you can do...except walk away.
Kate  
#5 Posted : 15 July 2016 08:13:58(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Kate

Identify the one that is least unsupportive and ask for feedback on your communication style and approach.
WatsonD  
#6 Posted : 15 July 2016 08:19:58(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
WatsonD

Before you hand your notice in, is it possible you could elaborate further on the issue you face?

At the end of the day they employ you to manage their H&S.

If you have challenged them in meetings, then propose to provide a report to highlight the issues etc.

And if you have sent a report which has not been answered, then ask them for a meeting.

If there is a collective group then try to see them individually to get their assent that way. Sometimes they can be different in a group situation to individually. You may find out more answers as to why they are stonewalling.

By all means sail out the door with your head held high, but only if its for something worthwhile, not just a toaster with no PAT test
achrn  
#7 Posted : 15 July 2016 10:20:15(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
achrn

rick448 wrote:
Drop a copy of the sentencing guidelines on the desk on your way out.


I am yet to meet a senior manager who is actually swayed by sentencing guidelines. I don't believe the magnitude of the potential penalty is a compelling argument or is a quantified factor in a rational reasoned decision.

Who is undeterred by the fact that a basic sentence is a year in jail, but would have acted differently if it were two?
Mr.Flibble2.0  
#8 Posted : 15 July 2016 10:24:21(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Mr.Flibble2.0


Start with small changes, low hanging fruit as the saying goes.

See if there are any solutions that will not only improve safety, but will also save them money (sick pay, lost time, lost production, claims and reduction in insurance premiums).

You can wave prosecution information at them, but is like speeding in your car. You know its illegal and what will happen if you get caught, but you do it anyway because there is a positive consequence for you speeding (get to work on time, get home quicker, the enjoyment). It isn't normally until you get caught that it effects you and even then only for a short time.

What you need to look at it how you can turn the positive consequences for them to not follow safety into negative consequences for them and highlight the positive consequences to follow safety and to do that you need to put yourself in their shoes.

To us as safety bods we know its because we have a legal and moral requirement to protect people whilst they are at work, but to a manager under stress; KPI's and budgets can be more important and that's understandable because that's what pays their wages and are things that have an immediate impact where as safety implications maybe be off in the future.

Think of how you would explain to a guy on the shop floor why he must where his safety goggles when grinding. If you say its because the risk assessment and law says so he is less likely to wear them, but if you explain the benefit to him personally, how it will effect him should he suffer an injury. He is more likely to follow the Safe Systems.
biker1  
#9 Posted : 15 July 2016 11:13:10(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
biker1

I sympathise with the poster's position. I once worked for an MD who was enthusiastic about quality but whose eyes glazed over when we came to health and safety.

You could try hard-hitting testimonies (Ken Woodward, Jason Anker, Ian Whittingham) which might achieve more than quoting legislation at them.

It depends on the seriousness of the non-compliance culture, and only you will know that. If, after trying the strategies suggested in this thread, you are still getting nowhere, it may be time to move on, but don't forget to put everything in writing, keep copies, and let the HSE know about the situation. There's not much more you can do.
martin1  
#10 Posted : 15 July 2016 11:41:19(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
martin1

I agree with biker1.

You can only bang your head against the wall for so long.

DavidBrede  
#11 Posted : 15 July 2016 21:49:15(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
DavidBrede

The importing thing is to ground your concerns in the language that that management understand, i.e. where is the money?

Getting change is about improving the performance of the business so you have got to think about how poor safety impacts on this, higher insurance, costs of accidents, impact on the business reputation. Clearly sentencing is the consequences of failure when things end up in court.

Start grounding your approach in this way and you will attract attention of other parts of management.
rick448  
#12 Posted : 16 July 2016 08:52:42(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
rick448

achrn wrote:
rick448 wrote:
Drop a copy of the sentencing guidelines on the desk on your way out.


I am yet to meet a senior manager who is actually swayed by sentencing guidelines. I don't believe the magnitude of the potential penalty is a compelling argument or is a quantified factor in a rational reasoned decision.

Who is undeterred by the fact that a basic sentence is a year in jail, but would have acted differently if it were two?


I have to say my experience differs from yours. My reply was a little tongue in cheek and that would be a last resort. However going through the guideline in our safety committee meeting certainly made a difference. To be fair as I'm part of the SMT I only have one person to convince.
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