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Russ1977  
#1 Posted : 03 August 2016 11:44:09(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Russ1977

Good morning all,

Re Asbestos labelling, I am of the opinion that should Asbestos be present and not removed then it should be labelled as such to avoid accidental disturbance.
However, someone else is of the opinion that there is no legal obligation to do this.

Who is correct?

Thanks.
Clark34486  
#2 Posted : 03 August 2016 11:54:12(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Clark34486

That depends on the environment

There's no requirement to label it, simply to understand where the asbestos is and manage it (compile the register, damage & disturbance inspections, emergency plans etc.)

If you have to label it because it's potentially friable, in poor condition etc. then perhaps it should be removed or encapsulated?

The priority and material assessments will give the recommendations.......

personally I'm not for labelling at all because it suggest a lack of control and understanding of how asbestos should be managed

jwk  
#3 Posted : 03 August 2016 15:18:21(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
jwk

I don't think you should be making labels out of asbestos.... ;-)

John
Graham Bullough  
#4 Posted : 03 August 2016 23:51:46(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Graham Bullough

As Clark34486 indicated at the start of response #2 the issue of whether or not to label ACMs (asbestos containing materials) does depend on the particular circumstances involved.

For example one of my former employer's primary school buildings consisted mostly of ACM panelling supported on aluminium frames. It was built as a temporary structure just after WW2 and the frames apparently came from a factory which had assembled bombers for the RAF during WW2 and had subsequently been converted to produce frames for much needed temporary houses and other buildings including schools after WW2. The surfaces of ACMs which were vulnerable to impact damage, e.g. in corridors, had long been protected by panels made of plywood or other materials. All the employees knew which panels comprised ACMs and that they posed no health risk as long as their surfaces remained suitably sealed or enclosed. Furthermore, they were aware of what sort of activities might disturb the ACMs. Therefore, if any contractors arrived in their rooms and wanted to start drilling or doing similar work without first having been seen and briefed by the school management or caretaker/site supervisor, the employees were empowered to tell such visitors about the ACMs and insist that they should not be disturbed.

Other people such as the school governors also knew about the ACMs and I think pupils and their parents also knew enough about the ACMs and their condition to avoid being alarmed by their presence. Therefore, like my predecessors in my former employer's OS&H team, I thought there was no need for the ACMs to be labelled to advise that they contained asbestos. The risk from them was effectively managed through physical encapsulation plus awareness by staff, etc. Thankfully, a few years after the Millennium, a brand new building was built next to the old one - the 60 year lifespan of which had somewhat stretched the definition of "temporary"! After the school moved into the new building the exterior of the old one was suitably enclosed to enable its interior to be progressively dismantled with appropriate stringent precautions.

Out of interest has anyone else had dealings with similar buildings made of ACMs and aluminium frames made by converted WW2 aircraft factories?

Around 2010 another of my former employer's schools was picked for a visit by a HSE inspector as part of a national survey to assess how well or otherwise schools and local education authorities were managing ACMs in their buildings. I joined the visit and was as delighted as the inspector to note that the headteacher, caretaker and various teachers, etc, were aware of the locations of ACMs in the building and that they should not be disturbed by anyone. The inspector agreed that there was no need for labelling of ACMs in normally occupied areas of the building. By contrast, she agreed that labelling of sealed ACMs in the unoccupied basement boiler room was appropriate so as to leave visiting contractors in no doubt as to their composition and the need to leave them undisturbed.

Graham B
Xavier123  
#5 Posted : 04 August 2016 09:01:29(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Xavier123

...and labels can fall off.

So still need additional measures to check on labels!
stevie40  
#6 Posted : 04 August 2016 09:16:23(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
stevie40

Graham, am I correct in assuming your previous employer was a local education authority?

A previous insurer I worked for specialised in insuring schools not under LEA control. Public schools and academies in other words.

I often found that the academies failed to understand their duties re asbestos. Previously everything had been taken care of by the LEA and the academy management team would fail to allocate resources to the problem.

A common issue was in relation to cosmetic facelifts of older CLASP structures. Old Crital Hope glazing would be replaced, often disturbing the infill panel beneath. In many CLASP buildings, those panels contains asbestos. I recall one school effectively putting 50% of the campus out of use while clean up operations were carried out.

chris42  
#7 Posted : 04 August 2016 09:25:09(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
chris42

From INDG223

"If you decide not to label the asbestos, you need to make sure that those who might work on the material know that it contains or may contain asbestos, before they start work, eg when you ask for a quote for a job."

However once in the past, lets say due to a communication breakdown, boy was I glad I had made sure things were labelled. Result stern talking to, which I passed on to the guilty party, opposed to something more formal. Well worth a few labels.

Eg Fred and Bob know of asbestos locations. Fred on holiday, bob off sick and boiler breaks down. New pipework needs to go through ceiling ...........You can work out the rest of this fictitious scenario.

Chris

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