Rank: Forum user 
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Hi All,
I know all manner of forklift topics have been discussed in the past but I'm keen to gain opinion prior to doing battle:
L117 Guidance suggests refresher training is every 3-5 years, or as required eg. post accident
Current company policy is 'within 5 years of the initial training programme.'
Trg provider certificate expires after 3 years.
I take issue with the wording of the company policy as it is open to misinterpretation; but if guidance is 3 to 5 years and the ticket runs out after 3, would a company be seen as compliant by waiting until the 5 year point? After discussing this with a couple of aquaintences, the 3 year interval seems to be the way forward as it demonstrates best practice inline with the guidance.
The benefit of worldly knowledge is most appreciated.
Regards
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Rank: Super forum user 
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In my experience refreshers for FLT training are provided every 4 years. This frequency is within the HSE guidance and deemed appropriate. Many industry providers use a minimum term only because they have a vested interest in being engaged again. This is typical with asbestos surveys and FRAs where on the report it often states the assessment should be carried out annually - nonsense!
All I would add that if you go down the five year route it should be articulated with your company policy or procedure so that you have a record you can produce if and when, hopefully never, there is a serious incident.
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Rank: Forum user
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I agree Ray about providers etc. using the minimum or possibly made up timeframes in order to maximise business opportunities. But where does one stand when the provider issues a certificate with an expiry date that is at the 3 year point? A policy may say 3.5, 4 or 5 years; guidance says 3-5 years; how relevant is the expiry date of the certificate and where would you stand from a compliance point of view during the period from certificate expiry, to the maximum time frame set by a policy or official guidance L117?
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Rank: Forum user
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The vast majority of clients I have have dealt with apply a 3 year refresher policy to help maintain operator competence. A minority of which do the training in-house via competence assessment carried out with the operator and a in-house trainer, typically a senior suppervisor with an appropriate trainer certicate from a recognised body, such as LANTRA or similar. By default, most go for external accrediated trainers. 4 yearly, has others have point out seems to be popular and well within HSE guidance.
Also consider FLT medicals:
From memory, operators should be screened for fitness before employment and at regular intervals in middle age. Medicals at 45 and thereafter at intervals of 5 years up to 65 is recommended by the HSE. Operators over 65 screened annually. (Check teh ACoP).
If working an FLT within the environs of Docks I recall that medicals are a mandatory legal requirement.
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Rank: Forum user
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Yes but how would it stand when a trg provider certificate expires at 3yrs.
Company policy says refresh at 5 years and guidance says refresh every 3-5 years. There is up to a two year difference, would the company be viewed as not compliant by waiting until 5 years; some 2 years after the certificate as expired.
After all, they still have evidence of having been trained.
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Rank: Forum user
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Originally Posted by: Andy14  Yes but how would it stand when a trg provider certificate expires at 3yrs.
Company policy says refresh at 5 years and guidance says refresh every 3-5 years. There is up to a two year difference, would the company be viewed as not compliant by waiting until 5 years; some 2 years after the certificate as expired.
After all, they still have evidence of having been trained.
Okay, you could be caught out by an auditor (internal or external) on the expiry issue and the apparent non-alignment with company policy, so there is a case for 'non - compliance' with your own processes, not with statuate (unless your RA states every 3 years). The solution is to align the FLT training frequency to the policy (if you're happy that the policy is fit for purpose).
The 3 year cert really means nothing other than trying to get more business. But your company decided to use them and accept the cert.
Review your RA for FLTs and decide on a clear policy and align them 100%, ideally to a time range which considers the ACoP. Advise your training provider of the decision and if they don't like, seek out one that does!
Remove the question mark and crack on.
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Rank: Super forum user 
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Plus it will depend on how frequent or infrequent the staff drive them
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Rank: Super forum user 
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Another demonstration of competence issue.
At one employer we had an RTITB instructor on the books - trained all drivers internally and barring accidents re-examined every five years.
Another used external courses and refreshed every three years based on the training companies certificate.
Another accepted the certificates of external providers for new starters but conducted "no accident" assessments every four years.
No overall difference seen in driving performance at all three.
Consider - an individual passes the road licence test and under UK law remain "competent" to operate a motor vehicle (subject to medical declaration in later life) WITHOUT any refresher training.
Do you ask your CEO, MD, FD, sales team to demonstrate vehicke driving competence every 3,4,5 years?
Why not? as with an FLT driver they are operating a vehicle in pursuit of business interest. It is still some 3 MT of moving metal with the capacity to kill, injure and mame.
Oh and our RTITB instructor held no UK road vehicle licence!
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Rank: Super forum user
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Another demonstration of competence issue.
At one employer we had an RTITB instructor on the books - trained all drivers internally and barring accidents re-examined every five years.
Another used external courses and refreshed every three years based on the training companies certificate.
Another accepted the certificates of external providers for new starters but conducted "no accident" assessments every four years.
No overall difference seen in driving performance at all three.
Consider - an individual passes the road licence test and under UK law remain "competent" to operate a motor vehicle (subject to medical declaration in later life) WITHOUT any refresher training.
Do you ask your CEO, MD, FD, sales team to demonstrate vehicke driving competence every 3,4,5 years?
Why not? as with an FLT driver they are operating a vehicle in pursuit of business interest. It is still some 3 MT of moving metal with the capacity to kill, injure and mame.
Oh and our RTITB instructor held no UK road vehicle licence!
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Rank: Super forum user
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Originally Posted by: Andy14 I agree Ray about providers etc. using the minimum or possibly made up timeframes in order to maximise business opportunities. But where does one stand when the provider issues a certificate with an expiry date that is at the 3 year point? A policy may say 3.5, 4 or 5 years; guidance says 3-5 years; how relevant is the expiry date of the certificate and where would you stand from a compliance point of view during the period from certificate expiry, to the maximum time frame set by a policy or official guidance L117?
Andy, personally I don't think the timescale on the certificate is all that relevant. The guidance L117 states out 3-5 years, that is more important. Training providers will often set their own timescale, not relevant in law, so it is meaningless.
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Rank: Forum user
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3-5 year your choice has a business and the variable factors that only you will know, what is more critical which is often missed but very clearly outlined is the monitoring process that you have in between what ever frequency you set ensuring that all the standards are maintained and no bad habits has crept in.
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Rank: Forum user
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My company had refresh training at 5 years but I found that a person would get to 5 years and then you would try a schedule in re-training and the inevitable complaints about resource issues would push people to be trained at 5 years and the odd month. So i switched it to every 3.5 Years and now every driver is retrained by 4 years wihtout issue. All drivers have to complete at least 5 hours of operating every month, and I also monitor their driving habits during site inspections. I also put drivers through refresh training when required (i.e. after accidents)
I had a similar issue with a training provider who issued certificates for gantry crane operators and put an expiry date on them with 1 year from training date.
The company issues the authorisations and should have policies for refresh training frequencies.
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Rank: Forum user
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I would like to thank all who replied to to my query with some excellent and very useful advice and scenarios.
My initial take on this matter was the same as you all; that as long as the training is carried out within the 5 years or as other circumstances (RA, accident, monitoring etc.) dictate, then the training provider expiry date is somewhat irrelevant.
It was a discussion that occured during a tutorial that had me questioning things. I will be pushing for a full review and update of policy and procedure at my current location.
Regards and many thanks.
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