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Russ1977  
#1 Posted : 23 November 2016 10:56:54(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Russ1977

Hi all,

Following on from my post yesterday about evacuations, I am after some opinion on congested escape routes.

Essentially a fire warden informed me that because an escape routes was very congested that scores of people turned back and sought an alternative. I am of the opinion that that is not the correct thing to do and unless your nearest exit is compromised, you should use that one. They argued that they had been told (by a previous employer) that seeking at alternative due to congestion was fine?

Surely not? thoughts?

Cheers

Ian Bell2  
#2 Posted : 23 November 2016 11:24:09(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Ian Bell2

If these are 'official' designated escape routes - as identified by your fire risk assessment or by a previous fire certificate (if there ever was one for your building) - then I think you will find that it is illegal to obstruct fire escape routes.

Rather basic fire safety requirement.

Russ1977  
#3 Posted : 23 November 2016 12:14:45(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Russ1977

Ian,

Thanks for the reply but I think that you may have missed the point somewhat.

When I said "compromised" I mean't that the incident/fire was taking place in that area rather than someone storing redundant office furtniture in front of it for example.

My point was that staff should use their nearest exit and not turn back because it looks crowded or because it seemed to be taking a while to get down the stairs.

Ian Bell2  
#4 Posted : 23 November 2016 13:20:44(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Ian Bell2

Ok. But if the fire escape is effectively blocked because of congestion by the number of people trying to use it, then maybe it is necessary to review the number of fire escapes, escape routes etc. Standing around waiting for the escape to clear amounts to pretty much the same, not being able to reach a place of safety in a reasonable time.
A Kurdziel  
#5 Posted : 23 November 2016 14:05:56(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
A Kurdziel

Congestion is a relative term. By congestion do you mean so jam packed that you cannot advance forward? Or do you mean standing so close to someone that you can smell their aftershave? The first would be a serious issue the second is temporary inconvenience, while you try to get to place of safety.   As long as the crowd moves forward congestion should not be an issue.

Similarly people get hung up on how much space is needed at the assembly point and set aside set aside a dozen football pitches worth of space for a few dozen people.

achrn  
#6 Posted : 23 November 2016 14:14:20(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
achrn

Originally Posted by: Russ1977 Go to Quoted Post

Essentially a fire warden informed me that because an escape routes was very congested that scores of people turned back and sought an alternative. I am of the opinion that that is not the correct thing to do and unless your nearest exit is compromised, you should use that one. They argued that they had been told (by a previous employer) that seeking at alternative due to congestion was fine?

Surely not? thoughts?

So how would that work in practice?

You're standing at the back of a mass of people on a fire exit route and the mass is not moving forward, so you stand and wait.  Meanwhile, the people at the front of the mass (round the corner, out of sight) are face-to-face with a blockage / missing staircase / locked door / wall of flame / otehr problem.  They can't go back because of the mass of people behind them who are backed up and can't see that there's a problem with the route.

Surely a stationary mass of people IS a compromised escape route.  You can't escape down it.

If I was trying to escape a burning building and couldn't get down a route with 'fire exit' signs, I'm not going to stand their waiting for death if I think there's another way out.

firesafety101  
#7 Posted : 23 November 2016 15:40:09(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
firesafety101

This reminds me of the Hillsborough tragedy and the Bradford FC fire. Many people died due to 'congestion' and the build up of people behind them rendering it impossible for them to turn around and move away from the problem. Pro active fire officers must frequently check their escape routes, leaving nothing to chance. If you have this sort of issue then do something about it. Find out the cause of the blockage and remove it, if too many people see it you can get more fire exits installed. Some places need a daily walk around to check the fire safety equipment, exits, notice boards, fire exit signs, look outside the building for obstructions caused by parked vehicles, cars parked over fire hydrants, access for the fire service into the premises, all fire fighting equipment fully accessible, the list may be endless but must suit your premises. Is your fire training up to date, fire drills practiced every year, fire alarm tested every week, etc. etc. etc. Get your local fire station in to have a familiarisation visit for the firefighters and invite them to advise if necessary.
donnymac  
#8 Posted : 23 November 2016 16:31:25(UTC)
Rank: New forum user
donnymac

I have been in various situations where no amount of training and signage actually helps some people to think to escape from danger. They have to be led cajoled or even dragged to the direction of a place of safety. In one instance during an unannounced evacuation drill from 19th storey building in London, people stopped going down the escape stairwell as there was no room to step down. Nobody could move and with a thousand people in one stairwell it started to get hot. The rest of the building had cleared out of the other exits but this one stairwell wasn’t moving. 25 minutes later the doors to the floors were opened from the inside (remember from a fire escape you can’t open them) and we went across office space then out the other exits. So no problem it was only a drill, really? 4>5 people were injured going down the stairs 19 storeys = 38 flights of stairs, sprains and strains and one broken hip and this was only a practice drill. Which exit you use is up to the individual but most folk go out the way they came in and in this instance they were encouraged away from the lifts but in that area there are four emergency stairwells and they didn’t get used as people went for the outer end escape route. Lessons were learned and a lot of people appreciated how physically hard it is to slowly step down stairs for 20 minutes to get out to a place of safety. In a large building with many companies in it, the Facilities Manager or such must have a workable fire evacuation plan not just a fire drill plan where people can evacuate from anywhere in the building and not just the emergency exit allocated. I for one would always encourage people to look for an alternative escape route preferably up wind and not too high up in a building.
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