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PhilPlume  
#1 Posted : 05 January 2017 11:26:54(UTC)
Rank: New forum user
PhilPlume

Good Morning all, hoping someone out there can help me. 

I am the H&S Manager on a fairly remote manufacturing site. We are located on a country road a couple of miles away from the nearest village/town. There are no footpaths along these roads and they are not lit.    Most of our employees travel to and from work in cars, however some ride bycicles and a few walk. Most of those riding bycicles or walking are agency workers, employed by the labour provider we use.

I have always thought that our responsibility for the safety of our workers ends at the front gate, if they are not engaged in company work. I have been asked to comfirm this.

We have built a foot path from the site to the nearest bus stop about 200m away, issued high viz vests and provided guidance lifted from the highway code on cycling and walking along roadsides. We have also had fruitless discussions with the highways agency about providing more extensive footpath, and have sucessfully negotiated an onsite bus stop to be added to the morning and evening bus service past our site.

My question is, where/when does our duty of care to workers end?   could anyone point me to any specific guidance? 

Thanks Phil 

A Kurdziel  
#2 Posted : 05 January 2017 12:04:50(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
A Kurdziel

I like most people have “heard” or “been told” that in the UK H&S starts at the factory gates and the company is not responsible for employee’s safety on the way to work. In the Health and Safety at Work Act there is no legal definition of ‘at work’ and I assume that the legal definition has developed through case law (I have no idea what case law this is-I suspect that it will be old and obscure).

Is someone suggesting that the duty extends beyond the factory gate to the morning/evening commute?  

If so where does it end- at the person’s home drive way, their front door?

I have in the past been asked to take H&S out of the gates. We had employees crossing a busy road from a bus stop in the mornings and not always paying attention as they crossed. I had a call from one upset driver (not an employee) suggesting “I do something about the employees who don’t know how to cross the road”.  I suggested if he felt so strongly he should call the police. He said he had done and they suggested that he call the H&S manager at this location. I told him to get lost (Politely of course).  

thanks 1 user thanked A Kurdziel for this useful post.
andrewcl on 12/01/2017(UTC)
WatsonD  
#3 Posted : 05 January 2017 12:14:13(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
WatsonD

Unless you require them to walk or bicycle to work as part of their job role, I think you have done over and above your duty of care.

They have the option of the bus which you now have stop at your workplace. Also, has there actually been any accidents?

Short of encouraging a car share scheme, I can't see there is much more you can do.

gerrysharpe  
#4 Posted : 05 January 2017 12:22:46(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
gerrysharpe

Phil

The duty of care normally stops at the company gate or boundry.  Companies are not normally responsible for workers whilst off company premises and walking home, Like wise the duty of care starts the minute they walk onto company premises and ends when they walk off.

Its a nice thought to go out of your way and go the extra mile, but its not normally the done thing and i'm sure the compay's insurers would say the same thing.

On a lighter note it was nice to see that the company built a pathway for its employees 200m to the Bus stop, but who is responsable for maintaining, repairing and providing 3rd party cover should someone who is or no an employee of the company suffer an accident, because of the path that they would not of had done had it been left in its natural state. 

Food for thought

PhilPlume  
#5 Posted : 05 January 2017 13:53:23(UTC)
Rank: New forum user
PhilPlume

Thanks for this.  You have all echoed what I already knew. I agree, if we are responsible for employees when they where does it end? Checking headlights, brakes, torch and Hi-Viz etc etc...??? 

I was just looking for something concrete, however the 'at work' statement in the H&S at work act, probably covers this adequately. I have now passed this over to our insurers to comment on.

RE; the path. It’s on our land and runs parallel to the road on our side of the hedge, so its covered by our insurance. It leads directly to our site so the only ones that use it are people coming to our site. 

Kate  
#6 Posted : 06 January 2017 17:08:07(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Kate

Goodness, you really have gone above and beyond as a caring employer - kudos points to you!

andrewcl  
#7 Posted : 12 January 2017 15:14:24(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
andrewcl

Our company is similar - hi-vis while on the site, but as soon as you are out of the gate, it's up to you.

Also had a few complaints about some of the driving offsite, on the way here, and the response is always to contact the local police regarding these incidents on the public highways.

Historically we have had (small, cheap!) torches given out at safety events too, but the overall conclusion is it all stops at the gates!

Bigmac1  
#8 Posted : 20 January 2017 22:05:23(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Bigmac1

Why not tuck them up in bed to make sure they dont do anything stupid!!!!!

Invictus  
#9 Posted : 23 January 2017 09:03:07(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Invictus

Specific legislation/guidance, The Health and Safety at Work etc. Act it's in the title.

acetylene  
#10 Posted : 28 January 2017 13:45:27(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
acetylene

I agree with all of the above. The Act only applies whilst people are "at work". However, some daughter regs may apply.

For instance, PUWER applies to any work equipment that is provided for use "at work". Therefore, if a Company vehicle were being used by employees getting to and from work, then technically the Company is responsible that that vehicle in an efficient state, efficient working order, and good repair. In the case of an employee having an accident on the way to or from work, and it can be proven that the reason for that accident was as a result of a poorly maintained company vehicle, then the Company is in the frame. Health and Safety at work does not necessarily stop at the factory gates unfortunately.

This doesn't apply in your case I am sure, but took the liberty to stick my thoughts on a screen!

GriffinSL  
#11 Posted : 30 January 2017 13:49:30(UTC)
Rank: New forum user
GriffinSL

My previous company held the rule that if the person is paid by the company to travel the duty of care was applied to them. From home to normal place of work was unpaid so it was indeed get here and get home under your own steam/safety awareness.

If on a work trip and timed/paid from the door then it was work time and full duty of care was appplied until return home. Of course all company provided equipment (physically supplied or car allowance) had full company coverage and checks made on equipment and insurances.

Great efforts were also made to change choices and culture by our team to promote good personal safety discipline by all "at work, at home and inbetween" as we chant!

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