The answer to both is yes Article 13 FSO 2005. There is no requirement to have hard wired detection but of course this will depend on the building use and layout and of course your R/A.

If it is possible for everyone to hear shouting fire is also acceptable. I completed a FRA on a gym, and found that the rotary alarm was fine for the large open space and recommeded stand alone smoke detection for the upsatirs and stair way. They were inspected by the Local fire brigade shortly after and passed with no actions being recommended.

Invictus, our service supplier company asked me to pass on their thanks also.

I suspect they will just do what is on the assessors report as they have nothing which to use, to stand their ground with, to show it is acceptable. I guess it is very difficult to go against a fire risk assessors recommendations, even if possibly overkill.

You need suitable and sufficient means of raising the alarm, which as already mentioned could be a simple as shouting fire. Overly keen assessors aside, they would be better taking a steer from their insurers on this matter.

Thank you both for your input. Yes, I think it is “M” manual. From the Government guidance document, it states, as below, which is why I felt the assessor was going overboard.

3.4.1 Fire-detection and warning systems. In some simple, open-plan, single-storey factories and warehouses, a fire may be obvious to everyone as soon as it starts. In these cases, where the number and position of exits and the travel distance to them is adequate, a simple shout of ‘fire’ or a simple manually operated device, such as a gong, whistle or air horn that can be heard by everybody when operated from any single point within the building, may be all that is needed. Where a simple shout or manually operated device is not adequate, it is likely that an electrical fire warning system will be required. 

However, it does not include (or exclude) the use of rotary bells or in the other building they have the stand-alone battery operated push button sounder. They told me they had a quote of just over £2k for a break glass system in one of the buildings (just the alarm), where two battery alarms and some 2-core wire to link them would be about £100. The battery alarms can be heard everywhere and to be honest you could just by another at £40 if there was a spot where it could not be heard.

The thing is as I note above, they didn’t seem too sure of themselves to go against the external assessor “expert” or more expert than them. Of course, if they ignore the assessor’s advice and put in an adequate system and there ever becomes an issue they have wilfully gone against advice.

As I said I feel a little guilty as we put them on to this person (him being the best of the bunch we have tried so far). However, we didn’t have the issue as our buildings all have break glass.

I’m not sure about involving insurance companies from my experience they will blindly want the best, and being reasonable is not always in their nature. I personally having been fighting with ours over some daft security requirements, which would cost us thousands and ongoing hassle, but I recon I could bypass with a large screw driver, small metal bar or ever a small adjustable spanner. So not sure about that, I will suggest it and let them make up their own minds.

Perhaps he is right and the brigade don’t allow rotary bells because the person has to remain just inside the building and the noise stops when they leave. Oddly they still seem to sell them. For the life of me I can’t see why you can’t use those battery ones though in a permanent installation.

I’m not their advisor, but it has all been an interesting discussion.

Thanks

Chris