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RayRapp  
#1 Posted : 07 June 2017 12:43:42(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
RayRapp

In the absence of a fire risk assessor, I would be interested to know whether there is any point in fitting smoke seals on internal lobby doors with glass which is not a fire rated door?

As an aside, the FRA does not mention FD30 doors should be fitted so I am bit surprised in a three storey block of flats.

Many thanks.

Ray

Invictus  
#2 Posted : 08 June 2017 11:25:10(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Invictus

Ray bit suprised myself that theydo not have the FD30s doors fitted try this link I have only briefly scanned it so I maybe way of the mar Look at section F 54.7. IT talks about upgrading in certain cercumstances. remember the smoke seal is for protection form 'cold smoke' so at that time there will be little heat, but if they are not firerated once the fire is established the door will burn. All front doors should be FD30 and self closing.

https://www.merseyfire.gov.uk/aspx/pages/protection/pdf/Fire_Safety_in_Purpose_Built_Blocks_of_Flats.pdf

RayRapp  
#3 Posted : 09 June 2017 07:22:29(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
RayRapp

Hi Invictus

Thanks for the document link, however I have read it numerous times and it does not answer my query. The flat front doors are FD30s, it is the internal doors which are not. They should be in my opinion. The issue at the moment is complying with the FRA which states the internal doors should be fitted with smoke seals, but as the internal doors are not robust or FD30s I wonder what point there is in fitting smoke seals.

MaxPayne  
#4 Posted : 09 June 2017 08:23:08(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
MaxPayne

Ray,

I'd pose that specific question back to the fire risk assessor.  If they're competent they should be able to explain the rationale and the legal/technical reason for that recommendation.

Does seem a strange one though.

RayRapp  
#5 Posted : 09 June 2017 08:45:15(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
RayRapp

Max

Good point, however the fire risk assessor was a consultant who has since left our service. I currently have a vacancy and until that is filled I am the 'responsible person' if you like.

As an aside, I have found the consistency/quality of FRAs vary quite considerably from assessor to assessor.

Invictus  
#6 Posted : 09 June 2017 08:48:54(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Invictus

Ray,

how sure are you that they are not fire rated, I only ask because they could be FD20. The fitting of a smoke seal is to prevent the spread of smoke at an ambient temperature.

Do you have access to 9999?

MaxPayne  
#7 Posted : 09 June 2017 09:37:24(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
MaxPayne

Ray,

Some really useful information here:

http://www.bwfcertifire.org.uk/publications/fact-cards

RayRapp  
#8 Posted : 09 June 2017 10:40:32(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
RayRapp

I can't be certain the doors are not FD20s but I strongly suspect they are not. Strangely one block out of the three has FD30 doors (retro) fitted, but I can't find out when or why, although I suspect I know why.

The simple answer is to fit FD30 doors to the remaining two blocks with cold smoke seals, even though the FRA does not specify this action.

Max, thanks for the fire door link - very useful.

MaxPayne  
#9 Posted : 09 June 2017 10:44:12(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
MaxPayne

Originally Posted by: RayRapp Go to Quoted Post

Max, thanks for the fire door link - very useful.

Ray,

You're welcome.  I work in social housing and we've been wrestling for years with an aged stock, poor specifications and installations in some instances, so I have complete empathy with your situation.

Have a good weekend

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