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SafeStickman  
#1 Posted : 20 June 2017 15:37:16(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
SafeStickman

Does anyone have anything in their policies about maximum working temperatures?

I have checked out the legal standing on this and I know that there is plenty of legislation on minimum working temperatures but none on maximum working temperature. 

I have had 'issues' with site managers of clients not permitting operatives to 'relax hard hats' on site even when there are no overhead hazards (if there were overhead hazards, I could understand.)  Answers of company policy etc are bounded about.  For me, and shoot me down if you want, there is far more danger of heat exhaustion/dehydration/illness of working in the current temperatures we are experiencing today (27/28 degrees C), and that's before an operative is standing in and 'laying hot asphalt' for hours on end.  I even offered to alter my method statement and was still told no!

Yes, they have all been issued with sun cream, fluids and given toolbox talks on rotating and taking shade etc.

Thoughts please?

Shopland23872  
#2 Posted : 20 June 2017 18:51:39(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Shopland23872

PPE has to be suitable for the task and provide adequate protection, the wearing of hard hats when laying hot lay can be argued as inadequate. As you say, there are no overhead hazards and the enforced wearing of hard hats in this circumstance will actually increase the risk of harm, not reduce it. If a person was to pass out due to heat exhaustion they would fall into hot bitumen and suffer severe (possibly fatal) burns. We "fence off" the area to be surfaced and prohibit any entry by others, thus declaring it a declassified area for head protection. The HSE accepts this as taking reasonable precautions. I have had to raise this with site managers and their superiors before and they do agree.
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SafeStickman on 21/06/2017(UTC)
Roundtuit  
#3 Posted : 20 June 2017 19:29:46(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Roundtuit

Here we go again - a few days of sun and people want to discuss maximum working temperatures

In my past I have worked in kitchens, foundries, paper mills and glass works - oh how we would have loved some arbitrary statutory maximum to close the business as normal operation even on the middle of winter would have exceeded the figure - summer usually involved free issue drinks, salt tablets and frequent breaks

Despite the economic down turn many employees still manage to jet off for two weeks of hotter than home temperatures - big difference being the ice-cream and ice cold beers

Provide these people with your policy, and if they are not willing to accept modified controls for hot weather (as stated in HSE guidance) pull your team from site. First hint they want to place project delay penalties let the HSE know.

On the flipside are your chosen hard hats suitable? Personally my choice is absolutely useless in the rain as it is designed with multiple ventilation slots (and I often forget to put the supplied stoppers in place) but an absolute dream in summer compared to a standard closed moulding.

Roundtuit  
#4 Posted : 20 June 2017 19:29:46(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Roundtuit

Here we go again - a few days of sun and people want to discuss maximum working temperatures

In my past I have worked in kitchens, foundries, paper mills and glass works - oh how we would have loved some arbitrary statutory maximum to close the business as normal operation even on the middle of winter would have exceeded the figure - summer usually involved free issue drinks, salt tablets and frequent breaks

Despite the economic down turn many employees still manage to jet off for two weeks of hotter than home temperatures - big difference being the ice-cream and ice cold beers

Provide these people with your policy, and if they are not willing to accept modified controls for hot weather (as stated in HSE guidance) pull your team from site. First hint they want to place project delay penalties let the HSE know.

On the flipside are your chosen hard hats suitable? Personally my choice is absolutely useless in the rain as it is designed with multiple ventilation slots (and I often forget to put the supplied stoppers in place) but an absolute dream in summer compared to a standard closed moulding.

DProsser  
#5 Posted : 21 June 2017 09:08:12(UTC)
Rank: New forum user
DProsser

Hi,

Found some information in a book of mine relating to max air temperature however it is not referenced so can't provide source. Global guidlines on air temp relating to levels of physical activity - Standing, heavy manual work = 14-20 Degrees Celcius.

If you have the resources and desire to fully assess temp effects on your workers you could hire a occupational health specialist to conduct tests. They would likely use the below international standards and others to test. 

ISO 7243:1989 - Hot environments- Estimation of the heat stress on man - https://www.iso.org/standard/13895.html

ISO 8996:2004 Ergonomics of the thermal environment - Determination of metabolic rate - https://www.iso.org/standard/34251.html

ISO 9886:2004 - Evaluation of thermal strain - https://www.iso.org/standard/34110.html0

ISO 9920:1995 - Ergonomics of the thermal environment - Estimation of the thermal insulation and evaporative resistance of a clothing ensemble

Sound like you need to find a way to convince your clients to ease up on wearing hard hats, arrange a meeting and outline pros and cons, costs and recommendations of the situation. 

I like Shopland23872 suggestion of segregating the work area and allowing hard hats to be removed. If there are periods of lifting etc that would present falling hazards then the specific RAMS for that activity could make hard hats a requirement during that period.

 

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SafeStickman on 21/06/2017(UTC)
SafeStickman  
#6 Posted : 21 June 2017 09:15:42(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
SafeStickman

Thanks for your employment history and your brief fiscal summary Roundtuit, you are now officially my hero! 

However, you do eventually get round to some issues I agree on which are already in place.

chris.packham  
#7 Posted : 21 June 2017 09:57:30(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
chris.packham

If you go to 'Occupational Health' (J.M.Harrington, F.S.Gill, T.C.Aw, K. Gardiner) Blackwell Science (ISBN 0-632-04832-8) you will find an excellent and very detailed explanation of the effect of heat starting on page 147.

I recommend that anyone involved in occupational health should have a copy of this extremely comprehensive and practical book.

Chris

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SafeStickman on 21/06/2017(UTC)
DavidGault  
#8 Posted : 21 June 2017 11:01:01(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
DavidGault

There was a case a few years back (pre 2010 but my memory is not exact) of a company being prosecuted for having employees work in temperatures in excess of 30 C for three consecutive days.  So there is a legal precedent even if it isn't in the regs.  That case revolved around insufficient breaks and drinking water.  It si something that I am very aware of at the moment as I am working in a brass foundry today - trust me it's hot! 

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SafeStickman on 22/06/2017(UTC)
chris42  
#9 Posted : 21 June 2017 11:20:33(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
chris42

The World Health Organisation recommend a Max of 24 degrees, as after that worker performance drops, also concentration which could be argued may make things less safe. The Union has a reasonable viewpoint, but that is all it is.

www.tuc.org.uk/sites/default/files/Temperature.pdf

Bit at end specifically about outside workers.

If they are laying down a road surface what is going to fall on their heads? (pigeon / gull suffering heat exhaustion ).

Chris

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SafeStickman on 22/06/2017(UTC)
Roundtuit  
#10 Posted : 21 June 2017 18:05:53(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Roundtuit

I concur heat stress is an issue but a blanket maximum would decimate a lot of sectors including more sociable aspects such as service e.g. dining out when you are on vacation a 24 C maximum and your holiday waiter in Turkey would be required to stop serving

Even the TUC figure at 30 C would frequently close kitchens - think our elected representatives would pass such a law if their heavily susidised dining was withdrawn?

Roundtuit  
#11 Posted : 21 June 2017 18:05:53(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Roundtuit

I concur heat stress is an issue but a blanket maximum would decimate a lot of sectors including more sociable aspects such as service e.g. dining out when you are on vacation a 24 C maximum and your holiday waiter in Turkey would be required to stop serving

Even the TUC figure at 30 C would frequently close kitchens - think our elected representatives would pass such a law if their heavily susidised dining was withdrawn?

RayRapp  
#12 Posted : 21 June 2017 18:51:23(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
RayRapp

This type of scenario typifies why blanket mandatory PPE is often ill thought with little sympathy for those who have to suffer and also those who have to police it.  

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SafeStickman on 22/06/2017(UTC)
Roundtuit  
#13 Posted : 21 June 2017 20:27:35(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Roundtuit

Ray - perhaps the various reviews recently announced might, if we are incredibly lucky, start to drive lazy policies from construction. To those directly employed it is time to stop the stupidity and bring professionalism back to this sector. If you like the simple mantra no boots, no hard hat, no hi-vis = no job rather than doing the work please feel free to find new employment. Change is coming to construction and not before time, thanks to current public sentiment this is unlikely to be happy with current practices or add more tick sheets. The public want demonstrable accountability that will need more than a copy document borrowed from another iosh member.
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aud on 22/06/2017(UTC), aud on 22/06/2017(UTC)
Roundtuit  
#14 Posted : 21 June 2017 20:27:35(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Roundtuit

Ray - perhaps the various reviews recently announced might, if we are incredibly lucky, start to drive lazy policies from construction. To those directly employed it is time to stop the stupidity and bring professionalism back to this sector. If you like the simple mantra no boots, no hard hat, no hi-vis = no job rather than doing the work please feel free to find new employment. Change is coming to construction and not before time, thanks to current public sentiment this is unlikely to be happy with current practices or add more tick sheets. The public want demonstrable accountability that will need more than a copy document borrowed from another iosh member.
thanks 2 users thanked Roundtuit for this useful post.
aud on 22/06/2017(UTC), aud on 22/06/2017(UTC)
RayRapp  
#15 Posted : 22 June 2017 06:34:51(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
RayRapp

Roundtuit, I hope you are correct but I have my doubts. That said, in this current climate it is an ideal opportunity to reinforce the principles of good safety management. Instead of hearing the D-word for de-regulation all I can hear is the R-Word for regulation, responsibility and retribution. 

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