Welcome Guest! The IOSH forums are a free resource to both members and non-members. Login or register to use them

Postings made by forum users are personal opinions. IOSH is not responsible for the content or accuracy of any of the information contained in forum postings. Please carefully consider any advice you receive.

Notification

Icon
Error

Options
Go to last post Go to first unread
Denford36561  
#1 Posted : 22 June 2017 09:39:28(UTC)
Rank: New forum user
Denford36561

Hi All

I work for a fire and rescue service and we have gym equipment in every station to keep firefighters fit for duty. It is a requirement for every firefighter to complete fitness training, therefore as a service we supply gym equipment in order for them to complete their fitness competency.

My question is does items of gym equipment required to be used for work purposes come under the LOLER regs.

I appreciate that as this equipment it is used for work purposes,so it does already come under PUWER

Many Thanks

Kevin

Edited by user 22 June 2017 09:41:35(UTC)  | Reason: Alter one word in subject

jwk  
#2 Posted : 22 June 2017 13:27:40(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
jwk

Forgive my ignorance as I haven't used as gym in years, but what items of equipment in a gym would be considered lifting equipment? I know there are resistance machines with suspended weights, but I'm not sure that I'd consider that to be lifting equipment. The guidance to LOLER (para. 32 to be exact) says '

In most cases LOLER will not apply to work equipment which does not have as its principal function a use for lifting or lowering of the type associated with ‘traditional’ lifting equipment such as cranes, fork-lift trucks or accessories such as chains or eyebolts

Based on this I can't see any gym equipment being covered by LOLER. Not even sure that things in a gym, even a gym at work, would be work equipment. Happy to be corrected on both these points,

John

thanks 1 user thanked jwk for this useful post.
Denford36561 on 22/06/2017(UTC)
Denford36561  
#3 Posted : 22 June 2017 14:16:05(UTC)
Rank: New forum user
Denford36561

Hi John

Many thanks for your reply.

In my opinion I think it would be classed as work equipment under PUWER as we require our staff to use the equipment at work to keep themself it, so indirectly using the equipment for work purposes.

The equipment itself would be multi gyms & lateral pull down machines, as you say they they may not be actual lifting equipment although they do lift weights.

Should for instance a cable snap causing injury what regulations do you think would then apply?

Thanks again

Kevin

Edited by user 22 June 2017 14:16:51(UTC)  | Reason: Correct Spelling Error

jwk  
#4 Posted : 22 June 2017 14:21:10(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
jwk

Fair point about the work equipment bit; if staff have to use it then I agree with you. As you say, LOLER or not PUWER most definitely would apply now that we agree (or now that I know!) it's work equipment, and I would think your work equipment RA would set out a schedule of inspections and maintenance in any event,

John

thanks 1 user thanked jwk for this useful post.
Denford36561 on 22/06/2017(UTC)
ryangavin777  
#5 Posted : 22 June 2017 14:28:56(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
ryangavin777

Hi,

Yes, it would be PUWER but may also fall under reg 12 of working at height (schedule 3) depending on what equipment it is.

Allianz complete our inspections of the gym equipment for the company I work for. Hope that helps?

thanks 1 user thanked ryangavin777 for this useful post.
Denford36561 on 23/06/2017(UTC)
A Kurdziel  
#6 Posted : 22 June 2017 15:36:18(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
A Kurdziel

Let’s be realistic: what difference does it make what regs this equipment comes under?

If something was to go wrong the HSE (or whichever investigator) would not come along and say “They did not mention this or that reg –that’s grounds for prosecution!”

No they would expect to see:

  • A risk assessment describing how the equipment was to be used safely for whatever task it was designed

  • Specific hazards addressed

  • Evidence that people had been trained to use the equipment safely

  • A regime to ensure that the equipment was being properly maintained and periodically inspected Etc.

thanks 2 users thanked A Kurdziel for this useful post.
Denford36561 on 23/06/2017(UTC), DavidGault on 23/06/2017(UTC)
gramsay  
#7 Posted : 22 June 2017 21:28:29(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
gramsay

Agree with everything A Kurdziel says above in terms of not getting bogged down in Regulation, except for one thing - 

The OP asked specifically about LOLER since (I'm guessing) they wanted to know if they should add any of the various machines to their scheduled Thorough Examination list. As this is often done by an external provider it makes sense to know. These are machines which users add weights to which are then lifted via pulleys to generate resistance.

OP, I'd suggest these do NOT fall under LOLER (although you'll get a more definitive answer from one of the independent inspection organisations like Allianz, or from a large gym company). LOLER is concerned with machines which lift objects as their primary function and I'd think the primary function of these items is buffing your sixpack or whatever. However, as they're reasonably similar to items which DO fall under LOLER I'd definitely get some expert opinion (which should be easy and free, given how common these things are) before deciding.

You still have to make sure they're safe, as others have said.

thanks 1 user thanked gramsay for this useful post.
Denford36561 on 23/06/2017(UTC)
Invictus  
#8 Posted : 23 June 2017 07:04:46(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Invictus

Originally Posted by: ryangavin777 Go to Quoted Post

Hi,

Yes, it would be PUWER but may also fall under reg 12 of working at height (schedule 3) depending on what equipment it is.

Allianz complete our inspections of the gym equipment for the company I work for. Hope that helps?

Working at Height?

Just complete daily preuse checks and record them, have them serviced at the intervals recommended and ensure that the equipment bought is not for home use, as it intends to get over used. The equiment should be to commercial standards.

Have a induction on the equipment for new starters and  a notice with the correct way to use at the equipment although most have this on the side.

thanks 1 user thanked Invictus for this useful post.
Denford36561 on 23/06/2017(UTC)
Xavier123  
#9 Posted : 23 June 2017 08:02:15(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Xavier123

No.  Not lifting equipment therefore no LOLER.

As an aside, think carefully about purpose of induction etc.  Its a great idea for teaching users about certain elements of the equipment/facilities but larger gyms are moving away from it since they cannot get members to do it and PAR-Q health questions etc. are out of date the next day, even assuming no-one lied on them.  They're coming up with other means of getting information to customers.

Clearly in a workplace gym it's a more controllable environment but check out UKActive's 'Health Committment Statement' as part of an alternative if interested.

thanks 2 users thanked Xavier123 for this useful post.
Denford36561 on 23/06/2017(UTC), DavidGault on 23/06/2017(UTC)
hilary  
#10 Posted : 23 June 2017 09:28:28(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
hilary

I disagree that it's not LOLER.  From what I remember of my short time in the gym, the equipment uses pulleys and wires to lift weights.  So, you have a mechanism that lifts an item (weights).  In the same way as a manual block and tackle is LOLER and the chains on a forklift are LOLER so I think the wires and pulley system would be LOLER.

I would certainly check with someone like Allianz and not just take our word for it because clearly we all have different opinions on it.

thanks 1 user thanked hilary for this useful post.
Denford36561 on 23/06/2017(UTC)
stonecold  
#11 Posted : 23 June 2017 10:27:02(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
stonecold

LOLER for gym equipment LOL....so your saying then gym equipment needs LOLER certs of thorough examaniantion every 12 months? Come on seriously, this thread is getting silly now.

thanks 1 user thanked stonecold for this useful post.
DavidGault on 23/06/2017(UTC)
DaveBridle  
#12 Posted : 23 June 2017 10:48:42(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
DaveBridle

DaveBridle  
#13 Posted : 23 June 2017 10:52:15(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
DaveBridle

Sorry, forgot to add be worth reading INDG422.

Xavier123  
#14 Posted : 23 June 2017 11:49:16(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Xavier123

Originally Posted by: hilary Go to Quoted Post

I disagree that it's not LOLER.  From what I remember of my short time in the gym, the equipment uses pulleys and wires to lift weights.  So, you have a mechanism that lifts an item (weights).  In the same way as a manual block and tackle is LOLER and the chains on a forklift are LOLER so I think the wires and pulley system would be LOLER.

I would certainly check with someone like Allianz and not just take our word for it because clearly we all have different opinions on it.

I can't name you one gym or fitness chain that applies LOLER in this way and I have some involvement with most of the larger ones.  This particular issue has just never come up directly so I guess that means that somewhere someone could be - but I'd suggest the industry and their regulators have a different interpretation.

hilary  
#15 Posted : 23 June 2017 12:34:55(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
hilary

I did actually go back and ask the LOLER engineer from Allianz and he wasn't 100% sure.  He said that the weights are enclosed so probably not, but then you would still have to ensure it was safe under PUWER.  However, in the event of maintenance of the piece of equipment where it might need stripping down it may very well fall under LOLER and the maintenance engineer is "at work".  Also, you do have a duty of care so even though it may not strictly be under LOLER you might want to have it examined and certified because of the duty of care element.

So, that's a marvellous definitive answer from the experts for you.

Users browsing this topic
You cannot post new topics in this forum.
You cannot reply to topics in this forum.
You cannot delete your posts in this forum.
You cannot edit your posts in this forum.
You cannot create polls in this forum.
You cannot vote in polls in this forum.