Welcome Guest! The IOSH forums are a free resource to both members and non-members. Login or register to use them

Postings made by forum users are personal opinions. IOSH is not responsible for the content or accuracy of any of the information contained in forum postings. Please carefully consider any advice you receive.

Notification

Icon
Error

Options
Go to last post Go to first unread
Carl R B  
#1 Posted : 01 August 2017 12:34:19(UTC)
Rank: New forum user
Carl R B

We are having problems getting staff to volunteer to become fire marshals, there is a bit of a trust issue after the company went into administration, then was bought out but a lot of staff were made redundant, whilst the remaining staff took a hit on their salary.

We are trying to reorganise the company to be more efficient so It doesn't go down the same route again, however the staff will not volunteer for the fire marshal role, we have got some to volunteer as first aiders but that role gets a small financial inducement a few pounds a month.

my question is how to get over this we definitely need fire marshals as we have 2 fire assembly points but only 1 factory manager so he can't be at 2 points at the same time as they are not accessible, we roughly have 85 staff on site at any one time and run 24/7,

Any suggestions would be gratefully received

O'Donnell54548  
#2 Posted : 01 August 2017 12:45:36(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
O'Donnell54548

I appreciate your problem (poor culture following redundancies) but I have never quite understood the criteria for volunteer fire marshals or first aiders. How does a random amount of people volunteering meet your requirements? For example in your FRA one of your control measures is that you will provide a suitable number of trained Fire Marshals IF we get enough volunteers??????

I have always been of the opinion that such posts are appointed, as part of someones job role, and then ensure the appropriate training for the people in these roles. 

Carl R B  
#3 Posted : 01 August 2017 12:52:06(UTC)
Rank: New forum user
Carl R B

That would make it easier however all positions that were left were TUPE'd over so no change to contracts other than the wage reduction, the business isalso unionised so any changes to contracts would not be easy.

Caterer123  
#4 Posted : 01 August 2017 13:37:10(UTC)
Rank: New forum user
Caterer123

Given that your site is open 24/7 I can see you will have a bit of a headache already trying to cover the sheer amount you would need.

Could you assign the task to the departmental managers / supervisors. Look at who is in charge of the staff and assign them, if part of thier contract already is to manage a team then they have a responsiblity to thier team in an evacuation. 

Hopefull this helps?

thanks 1 user thanked Caterer123 for this useful post.
Carl R B on 01/08/2017(UTC)
Carl R B  
#5 Posted : 01 August 2017 13:46:10(UTC)
Rank: New forum user
Carl R B

Unfortunately we don't have enough supervisors as they all went in the redundancies, there is just one shift manager, but 2 fire points at either side of the building which are not acessible without going through the building or walking around the builing and its neighbours which is roughly a 7 min walk.

Its looking like we may have to asign someone the position's and cross the opposition to it when it arrises (and it will)

Caterer123  
#6 Posted : 01 August 2017 13:53:52(UTC)
Rank: New forum user
Caterer123

Ok, but if the two assembly points are both reachable externally... it would be a case of the site manager walking round to check off. Obviously the responsvbility of checking areas on an evacuation is down to the fire marshall so is that feasable with one person?

Can management pick up - ultimately they are responsible for H&S in the workplace... ? 

Carl R B  
#7 Posted : 01 August 2017 14:06:56(UTC)
Rank: New forum user
Carl R B

During the day Its not a problem, its nights that cause the problem as only one manager on site and the site being on an industrial estate, the quickest way around during the day becomes less accessible on a night due to poor lighting (not on our site council pathways), and with there being so many staff and depending on where they are in the building (all on the same floor) it would mean quite a delay if one person was moving from one assembly point to the other to check staff off, they would also have to be in the area the fire brigade came to, so they could be guided to where the fire/incident was.

A Kurdziel  
#8 Posted : 01 August 2017 15:06:22(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
A Kurdziel

 I have dealt with organisation where everybody is trained as a fire marshal and the first person to the assembly point is “it” and picks up the Hi-Viz and the megaphone and collects the register.  But if morale is so low it might be difficult to get anybody to contribute, let alone everybody.

You have my sympathies   

Zyggy  
#9 Posted : 01 August 2017 15:54:17(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Zyggy

Carl, I obviously don't know the layout of your building, but rather than taking a roll call, could one person carry out a "sweep & search" instead & then go to the Assembly Point? Also, would an evacuation automatically trigger a visit from the Fire Brigade as the days of "blues & two's" attending all call outs are long gone!
HSE Chris Wright  
#10 Posted : 01 August 2017 17:29:24(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
HSE Chris Wright

Why not reduce the number of Muster points to a singular point? negating the requirement for additional marshalls. I have never been a fan of multiple muster point for the same company, a Human error can end up putting the lives of rescue personnel in danger. Just make a singular muster point based on the engineering design of the plant etc to make 1 suitable point.

benjamin.neal  
#11 Posted : 02 August 2017 12:18:52(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
benjamin.neal

Hold a meeting with your team and stress the importance of having fire marshals and the role that they play. I would hope that this drums up peoples enthusiasm. In a meeting you can meet people face to face and discuss any issues that they maybe have with becoming a fire marshal.

Alternatively can you not incentivise the fire marshal like you do with the first aid training? You can give them other responsibilities like weekly checks of fire fighting equipment, meeting with emergency servcies, checking of fire doors etc.to try and make it financially viable.

Last choice would be if your fire marshals are just for the assembly points, you can look at having just one assembly point. There are also computerised systems now that people check in at the assembly point although this would be an expensive choice. 

douglas.dick  
#12 Posted : 02 August 2017 12:52:01(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
douglas.dick

What are your fire marshalls required to do? fighting fire or checking areas are evacuated or both?

It sounds like you have more of a lone worker problem than anything. Do you have any radio communication, if so can people be required check in at muster points. Is there cctv that can help with an overview of the site or fire detectors etc? What are you dealing with that is so flammable and covering such an area?

sorry about the questions but it sounds like it need a fresh look at it.

sappery760  
#13 Posted : 03 August 2017 09:56:19(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
sappery760

Take all of the information that U have e.g. legal requirements etc. [including answers given herein] and give it to  management to manage as its their problem

firesafety101  
#14 Posted : 03 August 2017 10:13:57(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
firesafety101

I note you are unionised therefore your trade union members may have safety reps.  Do they have meetings, they are entitled to hold a meeting when there is more than one safety rep.

I suggest you arrange a meeting of your trade union safety reps and form a committee, with you at the Chair.  Hold these meeting monthly, take minutes and distribute to appropriate people.

You can then request assistance from them in appointing Fire Marshals.

I am sure they will appreciate you looking at the safety of their members being a priority, and may actually thank you.

firesafety101  
#15 Posted : 03 August 2017 10:18:29(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
firesafety101

I should have added Safety Reps can recieve training by the TUC at no cost to them or the employer.  Show them that you care and allow them time off for training, with pay, and they may be more acceptable to taking some responsibility.

Invictus  
#16 Posted : 03 August 2017 10:24:59(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Invictus

You need to sell it in a different way if there is no trust in the company, you have to sell it that this is about people employees and colleagues and not fixtures and fittings although they need to also realise they will have no job if the place burns down.

I never sell anything regarding safety as a company requirement (although it is and a legal requirement) I always use that as a last resort. I sell it on the basis it keeps us safe, appealing to them as people, I will get the odd 'who grassed' and I reply no-one but if you continue to act in that way I will be forced to take it further this often gets the required results but sometimes I am firced to go the whole hog..

It's also difficult to advise without knowing if it is a low or high risk work place.

You could always wait until it is raining have an evacuation and walk around to the next point after reading the register and have everyone wait outside inthe rain until both are called by you.

O'Donnell54548  
#17 Posted : 03 August 2017 12:39:53(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
O'Donnell54548

Carl RB, I am interested, how was your company able to reduce the workforce's salary when the TUPE legislations states that "the new employer may not unless the contract of employment so provides unilaterally worsen the terms and conditions of employment of any transferred employee"?

Users browsing this topic
Guest
You cannot post new topics in this forum.
You cannot reply to topics in this forum.
You cannot delete your posts in this forum.
You cannot edit your posts in this forum.
You cannot create polls in this forum.
You cannot vote in polls in this forum.