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Caterer123  
#1 Posted : 01 August 2017 13:26:39(UTC)
Rank: New forum user
Caterer123

Hi there! 

We have just recieved notification that a member of the public using are swimming facilities had been been to see a doctor and thinks it is likely she picked up a bacterial infection in our pool. I am just querying the RIDDOR side of things.

I am happy to accept that this is work related as we are in charge of cleaning etc... however the RIDDOR definitions on thier website do not define if reportable under "Exposure to carcinogens, mutagens and biological agents" when they are a member of the public only for staff.... 

Has anyone been in a similar situation - can you help?

Many thanks! 

Bigmac1  
#2 Posted : 01 August 2017 13:59:31(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Bigmac1

Only if that person is taken directly to hospital

Caterer123  
#3 Posted : 01 August 2017 14:09:07(UTC)
Rank: New forum user
Caterer123

Thanks Bigmac1, I just think it is a different situation as its not an acciddent. Under the RIDDOR definitions the taken directly to hospital relates to accidents not occupational diseases. 

Under the biological section it refers to "Acute illnesses requiring medical attention must be reported when they result from a work-related exposure to a biological agent, including its toxins or any infected material" which I believe this comes under however it only refers to workers in this section. In this section also I believe it acknowledges that noone would be transported directly to hospital as these things require multiple appointments and reactions etc.. can only appear after a period of time, therefore overridding the "taken directly to hospital" rule.

And I am extremely frustrated with the RIDDOR definitions as they are completly designed for workplaces where you would have visitors but not to hotels and leisure clubs where there is an incresed risk to visitors who can be exposed to such things where in other workplaces visitors wouldnt be exposed.

Elfin Davy 09  
#4 Posted : 01 August 2017 14:45:01(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Elfin Davy 09

My opinion would be not RIDDOR, but I appreciate your frustration with the Regs in this area.

In any event (and certainly if considering RIDDOR) I would personally want some substantial evidence of causation as opposed to "thinks it likely".  Obviously, I'm not aware of the specific infection claimed, but how many others have been affected by the pool and this infection, and if none, is it realistic that any "bacterial infection" caused by a pool would only affect one person ?

I assume you've carried out (or are in the process of carrying out) your own internal investigation, so does it support the "allegation" made ?  There are many ways of transmitting bacterial infections, so why is the GP of the opinion that it's "likely" that your pool has caused it ? 

I think there are lots of unanswered questions here, and until/unless there is supporting (or damning) evidence, I certainly wouldn't be rushing to do anything that might affect the reputation of your facility.

Zyggy  
#5 Posted : 01 August 2017 15:17:43(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Zyggy

I work in the leisure industry with a number of swimming pools & as it stands with RIDDOR at the moment, I would not report the alleged incident as a DO either given the facts you have mentioned or reporting an "injury" to a member of the public. The DO relating to biological agents refers to "severe human infection or illness" & this does not appear to be the case in your alleged situation. Also, as a backup, you will already have the results of your monthly sampling tests as per HSG 179.

Edited by user 01 August 2017 15:35:23(UTC)  | Reason: Additional info

Xavier123  
#6 Posted : 02 August 2017 08:35:14(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Xavier123

Always go back and read the regulations says I. I've posted the relevant one below...which I rather think then answers your question.  

Exposure to carcinogens, mutagens and biological agents

9.  Where, in relation to a person at work, the responsible person receives a diagnosis of—

(a)any cancer attributed to an occupational exposure to a known human carcinogen or mutagen (including ionising radiation); or

(b)any disease attributed to an occupational exposure to a biological agent,

the responsible person must follow the reporting procedure, subject to regulations 14 and 15.

Elfin Davy 09  
#7 Posted : 02 August 2017 08:37:23(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Elfin Davy 09

As Zyggy has stated, I would agree that this incident (unless of course it becomes a significant outbreak where many more people are affected) wouldn’t be reportable as a Dangerous Occurrence under the “biological agents” clause.

I think that it’s more likely that it’s Regulation 9 (which requires employers and self-employed workers “to report cases of occupational cancer, and any disease or acute illness caused by an occupational exposure to a biological agent”) that is being referred to in this case, but I think the word “occupational” is the key here, and I don’t think it would apply to a member of the general public.

The RIDDOR guidance also states that “minor infections common in the community such as colds, bronchitis or stomach upsets cannot generally be attributed to work-related exposures to biological agents, and so are generally not reportable. However, where there is reasonable evidence of a work-related cause, such as inadvertent contact with the infectious agent during laboratory work, you should make a report”.

Unfortunately, we don’t know exactly what “bacterial infection” is being claimed, but if it’s relatively minor (as per the above paragraph), I would still be quite confident that it’s not reportable.

Bigmac1  
#8 Posted : 02 August 2017 11:57:21(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Bigmac1

As previously stated by me above "Only if that person is taken directly to hospital " Regulation 4, all other regulations are persons at work

Xavier123  
#9 Posted : 02 August 2017 12:40:25(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Xavier123

Reading the law really makes this rather obvious.  It is for a member of the public. Biological agent section clearly states report only for occupational exposure to people at work.  The end.

Caterer123 - I've a link to a document that should assist you with RIDDOR from the Leisure Expert Panel. Although it doesn't cover occupational disease.

Guidance concerning compliance with RIDDOR

Elfin Davy 09  
#10 Posted : 02 August 2017 12:40:35(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Elfin Davy 09

Bigmac1 - You're correct about the "taken to hospital" requirement (..but it's Regulation 5)  ;-)

Bigmac1  
#11 Posted : 02 August 2017 13:12:13(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Bigmac1

Originally Posted by: Elfin Davy 09 Go to Quoted Post

Bigmac1 - You're correct about the "taken to hospital" requirement (..but it's Regulation 5)  ;-)

Typo lol fat fingers
DavidGault  
#12 Posted : 02 August 2017 15:12:51(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
DavidGault

It is worth noting that the doctor said it was 'likely' but there is no definite diagnosis.

A Kurdziel  
#13 Posted : 02 August 2017 15:34:36(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
A Kurdziel

In a previous life we had an employee who MAY have been infected with a zoonosis (animal borne pathogen) which MAY HAVE BEEN work related. We contacted the HSE and they said they were only interested and only required a RIDDOR report if we were CERTAIN that the infection was work related.

So if member of the public gets a possible bacterial infection from a swimming pool the HSE are not interested.

No RIDDOR.

PS Did the doctor send away a sample to Public Health England and did they come along and tested the water to see if the pathogen in the water sample was the same as that infected the person involved. (by the same I mean same strain (genotype) not just the same sort)

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