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thunderchild  
#1 Posted : 22 September 2017 14:47:24(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
thunderchild

So, I added two wee points to the site saftey rules that had not been changed since God was a boy and everyone on site has walked past them on the noticeboard every day, to add the controlling mind approved them. Well there has been such a kerfuffle on all the other points its unreal. So I had discussions with said controlling mind and re-wrote the offending lines to suit and sent it back for review along with some advice from me as the competent advisor. 

Well, not a word back and now HR and Finance are writing the new safety rules!! I mean c'mon, what message does that send out to the business? Think I'll do the finacials this month and chair the next HR meeting.

Busy weekend ahead on the job market I feel.

So frustrating, and its really a simple rule, its a no brainer. No better way to demoralise someone than to give another person with no H&S knowledge or quals your job. I think the want someone just to tick the HSE's box......well that's not me. I want to do good stuff, so I'll just have to go do it elsewhere. 

thanks 2 users thanked thunderchild for this useful post.
DavidGault on 25/09/2017(UTC), SLloyd-Hale on 27/09/2017(UTC)
Bigmac1  
#2 Posted : 23 September 2017 09:25:17(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Bigmac1

They are not ticking any box, they are giving advice from non competent people

KieranD  
#3 Posted : 23 September 2017 17:38:35(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
KieranD

Bigmac1

To the extent that you believe safety and health leadership is a matter of rules, it's not really that surprising that others may imagine they can dabble in them.

If you really imagine that the safety/health standards of the 2012 Olympics were achieved by dabbling with rules, be very careful where you go. 

Darren Bedson  
#4 Posted : 24 September 2017 13:23:30(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Darren Bedson

I have had a similar situation where i developed a safety management system for a client which took a long time to implement with their management team and then they brought an HR consultancy team in who were all guns blazing getting involved in everything. I was asked to attend a meeting with my clients directors and their team and was told i had to use the health and safety policy they had produced which was a 5 page policy and remove the one i had compiled with their management team. When i refused i was told by their (expert?) that they had defended theirs in court loads of time and they new it worked so i pointed out the failure to idnetify the required regualtions that this particular client required to follow and identify and left the meeting informing them that i was not prepared to use theirs. Cutting a long story short their HR consultants onle lasted 12-months and were not renewed at the end of the agreement.

thanks 1 user thanked Darren Bedson for this useful post.
DavidGault on 25/09/2017(UTC)
douglas.dick  
#5 Posted : 25 September 2017 08:37:47(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
douglas.dick

It sounds like you have a bigger problem as the current workers walk past the rules every day but are not made aware of them on a regular basis. If all you do is put them on a notice board then you are destined to failure. Employee engagement and management buy-in and enforcement is key to success.

DavidGault  
#6 Posted : 25 September 2017 08:48:56(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
DavidGault

I can sympathise with your situation.  A few years ago I read a notice that HR sent out and quoted some H&S rules that IT had come up with without talking to me.  Without going into detail it was wrong.  I had free and open debtate with the HR manager at the time.  I can't help wondering if that had anything to do with me being made redundant 6 months later.

thunderchild  
#7 Posted : 25 September 2017 09:12:42(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
thunderchild

Originally Posted by: douglas.dick Go to Quoted Post

It sounds like you have a bigger problem as the current workers walk past the rules every day but are not made aware of them on a regular basis. If all you do is put them on a notice board then you are destined to failure. Employee engagement and management buy-in and enforcement is key to success.

Engagement, leadership from the top........they are but a pipe dream and I think only mine!!!!

They are regulalry briefed but its evident that no one actually listens or reads them.

I find it odly comforting though that its not just me. I think I'm on rocky ground as I'm chellenging things and that is what is needed but clearly not liked.

thanks 2 users thanked thunderchild for this useful post.
DavidGault on 25/09/2017(UTC), lorna on 28/09/2017(UTC)
douglas.dick  
#8 Posted : 25 September 2017 09:22:42(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
douglas.dick

Originally Posted by: thunderchild Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: douglas.dick Go to Quoted Post

It sounds like you have a bigger problem as the current workers walk past the rules every day but are not made aware of them on a regular basis. If all you do is put them on a notice board then you are destined to failure. Employee engagement and management buy-in and enforcement is key to success.

Engagement, leadership from the top........they are but a pipe dream and I think only mine!!!!

They are regulalry briefed but its evident that no one actually listens or reads them.

I find it odly comforting though that its not just me. I think I'm on rocky ground as I'm chellenging things and that is what is needed but clearly not liked.

Oh you a certainly not on your own with this and it sounds like you have made a good start. Challenging the norm will certainly bear fruits and no one can now say they dont know the safety rules. I do find that health and safety is a function that the worst performing managers think they do well! It would be interesting to ask those putting forward the safety rules, what RA or basis they are founded upon.
thunderchild  
#9 Posted : 25 September 2017 09:29:09(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
thunderchild

Originally Posted by: douglas.dick Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: thunderchild Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: douglas.dick Go to Quoted Post

It sounds like you have a bigger problem as the current workers walk past the rules every day but are not made aware of them on a regular basis. If all you do is put them on a notice board then you are destined to failure. Employee engagement and management buy-in and enforcement is key to success.

Engagement, leadership from the top........they are but a pipe dream and I think only mine!!!!

They are regulalry briefed but its evident that no one actually listens or reads them.

I find it odly comforting though that its not just me. I think I'm on rocky ground as I'm chellenging things and that is what is needed but clearly not liked.

Oh you a certainly not on your own with this and it sounds like you have made a good start. Challenging the norm will certainly bear fruits and no one can now say they dont know the safety rules. I do find that health and safety is a function that the worst performing managers think they do well! It would be interesting to ask those putting forward the safety rules, what RA or basis they are founded upon.

I have no idea as they've still to be published. Looks like they may be having difficulty with them, I would have trouble enforcing the ones I issued even thought they are the ones in force. I've washed my hands of them now (I know I shouldn't but I've other things to get on with).

I'm now being told I have the wrong end of the stick......really? I don't think so. Heated discussion to be had methinks. :-(

watcher  
#10 Posted : 25 September 2017 14:26:18(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
watcher

Originally Posted by: KieranD Go to Quoted Post

Bigmac1

To the extent that you believe safety and health leadership is a matter of rules, it's not really that surprising that others may imagine they can dabble in them.

If you really imagine that the safety/health standards of the 2012 Olympics were achieved by dabbling with rules, be very careful where you go. 

Have some posts been deleted?  I don't understand this post, in the context of the discussion

Cooper103721  
#11 Posted : 26 September 2017 08:00:54(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Cooper103721

I had a similar situation many years ago now when I worked for a tool manufacturer.  Gave lots of good advice etc. which didn't seem to be going anywhere.  Had a few heated discussions with the Factory Manager which got me thinking that my ideas weren't getting through to him to be implemented.  Eventually had enough when the HR Manager, whom I worked for, asked me not to mention something at a meeting which I had actually passed to him for Management approval.  In my final meeting with the HR Manager where I told him what he could do with the job (I had found another one) and the reason why, I noticed that the advice I had been given via him to upper Management was actually in his pending tray!

Though I really enjoyed the job and the factory floor, working in that sort of envirnoment where advice is not taken was not for me.  Not looked back until now.

thunderchild  
#12 Posted : 26 September 2017 08:10:14(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
thunderchild

Yes, I love the people its the controlling minds I have a problem with.....or who have a problem with me, I'm still debating that one! LOL

Roundtuit  
#13 Posted : 26 September 2017 19:27:54(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Roundtuit

Mind over matter. I don't mind... because they don't matter

Problem with British industry is that it follows a very heirachial structure - great if you need expenditure approval or all the ducks in a row, useless if you are trying to shift the whole business to a new ideology

Many years ago I got many a flat forehead smashing ideas against the brick wall of management intransigence

Nowadays I gently float concepts to anyone and everyone who will listen sometimes months before grand introductions and roll outs. I don't mind everyone thinks it was their idea first because I know we are all now walking the same path.

Roundtuit  
#14 Posted : 26 September 2017 19:27:54(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Roundtuit

Mind over matter. I don't mind... because they don't matter

Problem with British industry is that it follows a very heirachial structure - great if you need expenditure approval or all the ducks in a row, useless if you are trying to shift the whole business to a new ideology

Many years ago I got many a flat forehead smashing ideas against the brick wall of management intransigence

Nowadays I gently float concepts to anyone and everyone who will listen sometimes months before grand introductions and roll outs. I don't mind everyone thinks it was their idea first because I know we are all now walking the same path.

RayRapp  
#15 Posted : 27 September 2017 13:28:56(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
RayRapp

When I read these types of posting I sometimes think we 'health and safety' people must be from another planet because there is a resonance with all of them. I wonder if it will ever change?

thanks 1 user thanked RayRapp for this useful post.
DavidGault on 28/09/2017(UTC)
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