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JoMcCormack  
#1 Posted : 10 October 2017 08:58:16(UTC)
Rank: New forum user
JoMcCormack

Does a third party legally have to carry out a fire risk assessment or can this be completed by an in-house person?

Oliverp1  
#2 Posted : 10 October 2017 09:01:23(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Oliverp1

http://www.hse.gov.uk/toolbox/fire.htm

Just like a risk assessment according to the HSE

thanks 1 user thanked Oliverp1 for this useful post.
JoMcCormack on 10/10/2017(UTC)
allanwood  
#3 Posted : 10 October 2017 10:26:48(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
allanwood

Take a look at PAS79

thanks 1 user thanked allanwood for this useful post.
JoMcCormack on 10/10/2017(UTC)
chris42  
#4 Posted : 10 October 2017 10:43:36(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
chris42

Originally Posted by: allanwood Go to Quoted Post

Take a look at PAS79


Only £132, seems a bit steep just to find the answer to the question. Depending on what type of industry etc you are in there are some guides out there.

go to and scroll down

https://www.gov.uk/government/collections/fire-safety-law-and-guidance-documents-for-business

George_Young  
#5 Posted : 10 October 2017 10:44:34(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
George_Young

It can be done internally if the person carrying out the RA is competent, I have carried out our fire RA for years, I have had them audited several times by the FRS with no complaints.

I have however had a new employee who used to work for a certain Fire and Security company try and tell me it had to be done by an external company.

Andrew W Walker  
#6 Posted : 10 October 2017 10:57:34(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Andrew W Walker

I do the ones for my company. As previously stated- its the 'competent' bit that matters.

RayRapp  
#7 Posted : 10 October 2017 11:24:44(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
RayRapp

Good advice above, I would add that it depends largely on the complexity and the risks involved. I would say I am competent to carry out a FRA in a low risk environment e.g. office, shop, non-sleeping accomodation with a few exceptions.

lorna  
#8 Posted : 11 October 2017 13:24:30(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
lorna

I'm working with a colleague - with a different backgournd/skill set - to write ours. We're quite comfortable that we could do 90% of it on our own but have decided that we will stop & bring somebody in if either of us feel uncomfortable or out of our depth. It's quite a complex environment. 

I was once told that the definition of a competent person was somebody who knew when they weren't...

Edited by user 11 October 2017 13:25:14(UTC)  | Reason: I type faster than I can spell!

Invictus  
#9 Posted : 13 October 2017 13:28:14(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Invictus

I agree that if you feel competent to carry it out then do, but there is more to it than just writing stuff on paper. I feel that you need to understand passive  and active fire protection mesures and the role each plays. What to look for, do you understand compartmentation, would you look at cables running though walls, look in ceiling voids to see any breaches, look for what fire stopping measures have been used if any. Do you know what role fire doors play and how to inspect them for example would you be able to identify correct double doors opposed to two single doors filling the same space. How many fire extinguishes and what type are required etc. etc. etc. There is alot to fire risk assessment even in what is considered low risk environment. All the information is out there it's about reading it and making sure that you understand it.

Messey  
#10 Posted : 15 October 2017 09:50:33(UTC)
Rank: New forum user
Messey

Just a slight point of law:

In England and Wales, the Fire Safety Order makes no legal requirement for the person who is carrying out the fire risk assessment to be competent. However, the FRA has to be 'suitable and sufficient'.

Although this sounds a little contradictory at first read, the rationale is that if you and your partner run a low risk small off licence and require a recorded FRA as its a licenced premises, it is perfectly possible for you to produce a suitable FRA by using the Govt FS guides. There was an undertaking when the Fire safety Order was being written that it would not create an undue burden for industry, thus there being no requirement for competence on all ocassions

Its unlikely that you would be able to produce a sufficient FRA for a 20 storey hotel or Buncefield, therefore that is when you may need to bring a competent person in.

Invictus  
#11 Posted : 17 October 2017 08:31:26(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Invictus

Originally Posted by: Messey Go to Quoted Post

Just a slight point of law:

In England and Wales, the Fire Safety Order makes no legal requirement for the person who is carrying out the fire risk assessment to be competent. However, the FRA has to be 'suitable and sufficient'.

Although this sounds a little contradictory at first read, the rationale is that if you and your partner run a low risk small off licence and require a recorded FRA as its a licenced premises, it is perfectly possible for you to produce a suitable FRA by using the Govt FS guides. There was an undertaking when the Fire safety Order was being written that it would not create an undue burden for industry, thus there being no requirement for competence on all ocassions

Its unlikely that you would be able to produce a sufficient FRA for a 20 storey hotel or Buncefield, therefore that is when you may need to bring a competent person in.


Your right there is nothing about being competent, but having a small off licence is ok and anyone can carry it out, but you need to also take into account other factors above us is not always 'only sky', there maybe residents living above. 

http://safety-managementuk.com/newsagent-fined.php

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