Struggling to find specifics in H&S legislation that states monthly temperature checks need to be completed on all workplace water systems, Is this a legal requirement or is it based on the results of a risk assessment that determines the schedule for temperature checking.

Originally Posted by: Adams29600

Not specifically a legal requirement, but the simplest method of controlling Legionella is by maintaining water temperatures and temperature checks are the means of demonstrating control. What does your Legionella Risk Assessment tell you?

No major iisues with the Risk assessment, I've just have an accounts department on my back trying to save money, clearly they are thinking that cutting back on temperature checks is a "quick win" in saving pennies. 

I'm trying to convince them that this is an area where we should not realy be looking at cutting back (multiple monthly temperature checks over a number of offices throughout the UK), I realise tha the ACOP recomends monthly checks but cant see it ib th elegislation. 

It depends what you have in your buildings. If you have stored hot and cold water then temperature monitoring is the best way to show that things are under control. You also then need tank inspections, tank disinfection etc. 

If it is all mains fed with local water heaters (<15 litres) then there is no need for temperature monitoring.

If there are showers, they need to be disinfected quarterly, or removed if they are never used.

Rarely used outlets need to be flushed weekly.

Everything needs to be recorded in the site legionella logbook.

Originally Posted by: georgiaredmayne

Hi James,

Remember that ACOP's have a quasi-legal status. If you can't demonstrate you are doing the monthly temperature checks you need to demonstrate you are doing something as good as/better in order to comply with relevant legislation.

Georgia

I agree with Georgia on this. By demonstrating that you are performing monthly tap temperature checks you are doing something deemed as reasonably practicable under Section 4 - duties of those in control of premises, ensuring that plant provided for others use is safe and without risk to health

See link below 

http://www.hse.gov.uk/pubns/books/l8.htm

Kind Regards

CDL

As far as I understand, you need a very good reason to be straying from the accepted methods and need to be able to prove the reason why you aren't following the ACOP. Though cost can sometimes be a factor in risk assessment, it really doesn't apply here.

Never heard of having to check water temperatures in cisterns before. Lesser used outlets are put on a weekly flushing regime but temperature checks? Would really love to know if I've somehow missed a pretty standard practice.

Section 40 of the Health and Safety at Work Act makes it clear that it is the responsibility of the employer to demonstrate that they are using the best means practicable to manage a Health and Safety issue. If HSE guidance suggests that the best way to manage legionella is by means of regular monitoring of water temperatures then that is the approach you should follow unless you can come up with something that has been demonstrated to be as effective.

As to cost saving being an excuse for cutting back on legionella monitoring, remember the Barrow-in-Furness outbreak, where a manager of a council run arts centre   (who knew nothing about legionella) decided to save money by cutting back on the monitoring of legionella. This resulted in 7 deaths, another 200 cases of the disease and a prosecution for both the council and the manager in question.  See http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/...land/cumbria/4250401.stm

So when your bosses review the risk assessment make sure they bear that in mind.  

Originally Posted by: Steve e ashton

Originally Posted by: FM-Dave

As far as I understand, you need a very good reason to be straying from the accepted methods and need to be able to prove the reason why you aren't following the ACOP. Though cost can sometimes be a factor in risk assessment, it really doesn't apply here. Never heard of having to check water temperatures in cisterns before. Lesser used outlets are put on a weekly flushing regime but temperature checks? Would really love to know if I've somehow missed a pretty standard practice.

To be clear: the example I used earlier referred to a toilet cistern only! There was no other 'stored' water on site, and the toilet was flushed a lot more than once per week! The plumber who was paid to do the temperature checks knew a mug when he saw one... Some so-called consultants (and the consultancies who employ them) really do need to get a grip and a sense of reality!

Thank you. I should have been clearer that I meant toilet cisterns. Good to know I haven't completely missed something.