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GB1977  
#1 Posted : 07 December 2017 15:51:22(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
GB1977

Hi

Do you provide hands on fire extiniguisher training for staff? Is an online module which provides details on extiniguishers, there use etc. enough?

Thanks

Guinness_Alan  
#2 Posted : 07 December 2017 16:00:48(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Guinness_Alan

A company I used to work for brought in someone from the Fire & Rescue Service to train us in fire extinguisher use. There was a hands on element to the training. We all got a certificate at the end of it

rach108  
#3 Posted : 07 December 2017 19:19:04(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
rach108

We have done both. The provider of our fire systems does a course and we all went to their premises and got the chance to put fire out. It was really good but very difficult to co-ordinate. We paid for an amount of people and 2 didn't turn up, leaving us with the problem of training them. This time I am having a provider out to do an office based one. 

RayRapp  
#4 Posted : 08 December 2017 09:39:38(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
RayRapp

I received on 'hands on' training by a fire officer many years ago. There is now a tendency not to provide practical fire training due in part to the time and risks involved. It does beg the question whether theoretical training rather than practical training is suitable and sufficient.

To muddy the waters still further, many employers and housing providers don't provide fire extinguisher training in any shape or form, preferring staff or residents to leave the building. Indeed the fire service have recommended in many buildings to remove portable fire extinguishers on the basis that the preservation of life is more important than property.   

N Hancock  
#5 Posted : 08 December 2017 11:00:35(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
N Hancock

We provide hands on training in extinguishers to our Evacuation Marshal.  I dont see the point in providing them if people are not trained to use them.  A quick check of youtube will show many examples of people setting them off in their faces etc.  By having a practical exercise people undertand how to hold them, where to aim, hear the noise and build confidence.

Docking36832  
#6 Posted : 08 December 2017 13:45:32(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Docking36832

we do both!

jwk  
#7 Posted : 11 December 2017 16:36:00(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
jwk

We don't do hand's on: we have over 600 workplaces scattered around the UK, many of them have only one or two staff so costs and logistics would be prohibitive. Our lead fire authority has accepted our approach: familiarise people with extinguishers using a mix of talk and videos, and tell people to get out...

John

Zyggy  
#8 Posted : 11 December 2017 18:51:58(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Zyggy

There are a number of industries where training staff in the use of fire extinguishers is vital. When I worked in the gas industry we had purpose built rigs which replicated a number of different types of natural gas fires. However, for staff within buildings where there may be a number of different types of extinguishers, I would suggest that it is virtually impossible to recreate such fires & can give staff a false sense of security. If you think about it, there are different types of fires; different fire fighting agents & different ways of fighting fires. Standing in a car park & pointing an extinguisher at a small bonfire may be a bit of fun, but that's about it. My advice over the years has been to get out & call the Fire Brigade out; a view shared by many senior fire professionals. During Fire Warden courses an FAQ is why then do we have extinguishers if they are not to be used? My answer is always that they should only be used to facilitate safe egress if there is no other course of action. A final point is staff retaining the training information & to test this point I asked a number of "trained" staff a few months after their course a number of questions about the use of extinguishers & the response was woeful (NB the training had been carried out by experienced ex Fire Officers). This is just my professional opinion & I realise that others will have their own valid views.
Messey  
#9 Posted : 12 December 2017 05:50:24(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Messey

Providing fire extinguishers is a life safety control measure as dictated by the premises fire risk assessment.  that is, extinguishers are there to protect lives and if installed, a system must be in place to train staff (or certain staff) in their use: The Fire Safety Order Article 13 (which only relates to life safety matters) states:

---------------------------------------------------------

Fire-fighting and fire detection

13.—(1) Where necessary (whether due to the features of the premises, the activity carried on there, any hazard present or any other relevant circumstances) in order to safeguard the safety of relevant persons, the responsible person must ensure that—

(a)the premises are, to the extent that it is appropriate, equipped with appropriate fire-fighting equipment .......

(3) The responsible person must, where necessary...........

(b)nominate competent persons to implement those measures and ensure that the number of such persons, their training and the equipment available to them are adequate,

--------------------------------------------------------------

There is a huge debate about training and always will be, but its clear that if you supply firefighting equipment, you must supply training. It's pretty cut and dry when you have staff, but there is still a grey area for residential. Residents are 'relevant persons' so if the FRA states firefighting equipment is to be provided, how the hell (and who) gets trained??

My view in relation to staff training is straightforward. The 'point and squirt' practical use of an extinguisher is very easy, after all they are usually just big aerosol cans arent they? The critical/important part of the training is when NOT to use them, and if an assessment is made to operate one, how to keep safe (eg: selecting the correct type, keeping your escape route clear and abandoning attempts if it all gets a bit iffy!!)

So why the fear? It is not rocket science. For SMEs with low to moderate risks, I often suggest a professional training is employed and the Responsible Person takes copious notes so they can develop their own training to repeated as necessary. 

RayRapp  
#10 Posted : 12 December 2017 07:57:44(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
RayRapp

Messey

Good and sensible advice which I agree with. However there are still some prickly issues particularly in a social housing environment. For example, staff working in sheltered housing are not the brightest or most agile of people as a rule. Getting them to understand the basics is not an easy task and more to the point, how will they react in the unlikely event of a real fire? 

hopeful  
#11 Posted : 12 December 2017 11:11:14(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
hopeful

We will be offering a course with hands on training for our care homes where the consequence of fire is extremely serious and where there is outside space and for offices only via instruction during training or dvd as here the consequences are not so devastating

thanks 1 user thanked hopeful for this useful post.
toe on 26/12/2017(UTC)
chris42  
#12 Posted : 12 December 2017 13:24:43(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
chris42

Originally Posted by: Guinness_Alan Go to Quoted Post

A company I used to work for brought in someone from the Fire & Rescue Service to train us in fire extinguisher use. There was a hands on element to the training. We all got a certificate at the end of it

I also attended one of these (prior to my involvement with H&S, so just a humble employee). The issue was there was a group of about twelve of us and only two people got to touch an extinguisher. The whole thing seemed a pointless waste of time to most there.

Lisa Boulton  
#13 Posted : 13 December 2017 17:28:54(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Lisa Boulton

We include a practical use of extinguishers - our fire extinguisher company supply us with some extinguishers and we allow staff to set them off - although the fire is usually an upturned bin.....everyone on the training operates a CO and a water extinguisher.

noodles  
#14 Posted : 13 December 2017 20:20:55(UTC)
Rank: New forum user
noodles

Originally Posted by: RayRapp Go to Quoted Post

Messey

Good and sensible advice which I agree with. However there are still some prickly issues particularly in a social housing environment. For example, staff working in sheltered housing are not the brightest or most agile of people as a rule. Getting them to understand the basics is not an easy task and more to the point, how will they react in the unlikely event of a real fire? 

Blimey ... the art of the sweeping statement about people is alive and well then! 

Bass900063  
#15 Posted : 04 January 2018 12:32:17(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Bass900063

I train all our staff in fire safety awareness as part of their H&S awareness when they join our organisation. The training includes how to select the right fire extinguisher, how they operate (I get each individual to pick up a fire extinguisher as some people have never done this and are surprised at the weight). We also watch several short YouTube clips on how different types of extinguishers operate.

I also train our fire wardens in a more detail (how peope behave in a fire situation, being proactive and reactive, how fire spreads, etc) but I still don't include a practical exercise.

I think this is enough for us.

Advice to all staff is to raise the alarm and then tackle the fire if they feel it is not going to put them at risk (if the fire is small and could be put out with a fire extinguisher I do expect staff to do this as the consequences of not doing could be devastating - we are a charity operating outdoor residential centres)

WatsonD  
#16 Posted : 05 January 2018 09:45:19(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
WatsonD

Fire extinguisers will be phased out in these settings by the rero-fitting of fire sprinkler or mist systems.

However, until then, there is no point in a fire extinguisher if no-one knows how to use it properly. And for me that means hands-on. Same as a fire-drill really - we all know how to exit a building, but can we ensure we will all do it effectively at the same time, with visitors, etc.

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