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damian2701  
#1 Posted : 05 February 2018 16:43:28(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
damian2701

Hello IOSH community,

I have been tasked to investigate and a particular accident involving a sub-contractor who was in turn engaged via a sub-contractor to the Principal Contractor.

The PC has been appointed to extend a sports complex and has assigned the M&E to my client who under a sub-contract agreement, my client has in turn outsourced the air condition (A/C) package to a further sub-contractor on a sub-contractor/sub-contractor agreement.

Unfortunately, an operative working for the A/C sub-contractor has suffered a particular nasty accident where the Injured Person (IP) suffered a presumed fracture to his lower arm (unconfirmed via a medical practitioner) by falling from a step ladder some 2.5 metres or so, both my client and A/C sub-contractor have drawn up their own set of RAMS which each party have signed to. Incidentally the PC site manger scarpered when I arrived on site and whist interviewing my client’s operatives stated PC standards of compliance where virtually non-existent(no site register, no site inductions, brickie’s working off a trestle with no guard rails – the list goes on) – in fact the IP had to be lowered from the first floor to ground via a pallet and telehandler in the absence of an internal staircase with the external working platform proving unsuitable to the extent where the IP was unable to egress the area owing to his (presumed) severe injuries.

 

Firstly, will the sub-contractor (my client) be held accountable under section 3 to the A/C contractor or will the PC be held accountable under reg 13 CDM 2015 and A/C employer under section 2 with my client avoiding any such enforcement action, and secondly, has anybody else been involved in a similar incident by playing piggy in the middle between the appointed PC and outsourced 3rd parties, in this case the A/C sub-contractor.

Any responses will be greatly appreciated.

Damian

Roundtuit  
#2 Posted : 05 February 2018 20:17:14(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Roundtuit

Fail to plan..plan to fail - your case is complex because the roles and duties are untidy.

Your "PC" site, your "PC" rules, your "PC supervision so any failure = your fault.

The employee will if they choose sue their employer, the HSE on the other hand....

thanks 4 users thanked Roundtuit for this useful post.
damian2701 on 07/02/2018(UTC), Brian Campbell on 09/02/2018(UTC), damian2701 on 07/02/2018(UTC), Brian Campbell on 09/02/2018(UTC)
Roundtuit  
#3 Posted : 05 February 2018 20:17:14(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Roundtuit

Fail to plan..plan to fail - your case is complex because the roles and duties are untidy.

Your "PC" site, your "PC" rules, your "PC supervision so any failure = your fault.

The employee will if they choose sue their employer, the HSE on the other hand....

thanks 4 users thanked Roundtuit for this useful post.
damian2701 on 07/02/2018(UTC), Brian Campbell on 09/02/2018(UTC), damian2701 on 07/02/2018(UTC), Brian Campbell on 09/02/2018(UTC)
RayRapp  
#4 Posted : 06 February 2018 07:53:25(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
RayRapp

Damian

These types of scenarios are not that unusual in the construction industry, especially on major projects where sub-contracting is ubiquitous. As the previous poster has stated, ultimately the responsibility for site safety lies with the PC. That said, if a sub-contractor was working unsafely and not providing proper supervision, etc, then they could also be liable and both parties prosecuted.

I suggest you get some evidence of unsafe working on site just in case... 

thanks 1 user thanked RayRapp for this useful post.
damian2701 on 07/02/2018(UTC)
thunderchild  
#5 Posted : 06 February 2018 14:16:51(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
thunderchild

Just one thing, what does hte contract with the sub-contractor state? Does it state they are allowed to sub-cotract or does it state they need to get the PC's permission to sub-contract and was this saught?

Having been in this position (or though not a reportable) we generally only knew the works have been sub-sub-contracted when there was an accident and we had it specified in the contract that we had to be notified and agreed to the sub-sub-contractor. Never happened once in the 6 years I worked in construction.

thanks 1 user thanked thunderchild for this useful post.
damian2701 on 07/02/2018(UTC)
damian2701  
#6 Posted : 07 February 2018 10:56:56(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
damian2701

Originally Posted by: RayRapp Go to Quoted Post

Damian

These types of scenarios are not that unusual in the construction industry, especially on major projects where sub-contracting is ubiquitous. As the previous poster has stated, ultimately the responsibility for site safety lies with the PC. That said, if a sub-contractor was working unsafely and not providing proper supervision, etc, then they could also be liable and both parties prosecuted.

I suggest you get some evidence of unsafe working on site just in case... 

I have in my possession some particular damming photos that I trust the HSE would take a very keen interest in, some significant and blatant disregard to planning, co-ordination, (where we all too often read about) , however, it is the very basic principles of PC management - managing, controlling, monitoring and supervision that top the list.

damian2701  
#7 Posted : 07 February 2018 11:00:52(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
damian2701

Originally Posted by: thunderchild Go to Quoted Post

Just one thing, what does hte contract with the sub-contractor state? Does it state they are allowed to sub-cotract or does it state they need to get the PC's permission to sub-contract and was this saught?

Having been in this position (or though not a reportable) we generally only knew the works have been sub-sub-contracted when there was an accident and we had it specified in the contract that we had to be notified and agreed to the sub-sub-contractor. Never happened once in the 6 years I worked in construction.

[I'm unsure of contract conditions between my client and the PC, therfore, I can only speculate the PC had no problem with my client outsourcing sub-contractor package to a 3rd party]
damian2701  
#8 Posted : 07 February 2018 14:58:34(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
damian2701

Just to throw a curve ball into the equation, the A/C contractor has not demonstrated by a S&S RA that the use of a step ladder was fully justified through the concept of short duration/low risk work. Having researched this notion, I have come across some contradicting publications describing short duration as 30 miniutes - where you actually work of the step ladder in one location for 30 minutes to complete the task then resiting the step ladder and the clock starts ticking again, whereas similar publications state short duration work is where the task from start to finish last no more than 30 minutes regardless of how many times you resite your stepladder.

Again, any comments will be greatly appreciated.

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