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coliedusty  
#1 Posted : 18 February 2018 11:00:04(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
coliedusty

Does anyone have a template I can use for a fire risk assessment annual review                                            PAS 79 is a bit long winded for a FRA review as it is nearly a full FRA again                                                   it's mainly for common areas in flats etc i have over 600 reviews to do so i need a template with premises name, date of last FRA, actions recommeded/ carried out  etc 

any samples would be greatfully accepted 

thanks 

Colin 

SNS  
#2 Posted : 18 February 2018 12:55:09(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
SNS

If the current versions don't have a review area make a one page document identifying what you have listed alredy, referring to the original and raising changes or work not completed where identified. Use the original and add the review sheet, should be good for 3 years or so unless something major changes and a full new RA is needed. In my previous employment thats how we ran.

How many of you are there to do this? 600 is a huge number.

thanks 1 user thanked SNS for this useful post.
coliedusty on 26/06/2018(UTC)
JohnW  
#3 Posted : 19 February 2018 11:14:00(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
JohnW

When I do a fire risk assessment review I just a do a complete inspection and audit. That way I am not going to miss anything. For example I have found exit doors locked and alarm systems turned off. I’ve found unlabelled flammable solvents stored on a bookcase etc etc If your review is just a paper exercise you would miss these. John

Edited by user 19 February 2018 11:16:08(UTC)  | Reason: Spellings

smurphy84  
#4 Posted : 19 February 2018 11:26:00(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
smurphy84

I undertake the annual risk assessment reviews as a part of my job (within residential blocks of flats) and have created a template for my ipad and carry out a full inspection of the premises. As JohnW said, you will never know exactly what is going on without seeing what's at hand. I use iAuditor but there are many more apps where you can create your own template and make it as detailed as you like. This is my preferance as it means I get to get out of the office and I base most of the reviews around summer. 

thanks 1 user thanked smurphy84 for this useful post.
JohnW on 19/02/2018(UTC)
JohnW  
#5 Posted : 19 February 2018 15:52:42(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
JohnW

Interesting article here:

http://www.firesafetylaw.co.uk/risk-assessing-the-fire-risk-assessor-retainers-and-disclaimers/

Quote:
I have seen a number of situations where premises were inspected by the risk assessor, a risk assessment document was sent to the responsible person, and that document was probably put in a drawer and never looked at again. But when the enforcement authority came knocking on the door, the inadequacies of that process were laid at the feet of the risk assessor.

Messey  
#6 Posted : 19 February 2018 20:32:00(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Messey

The review process is often just a rubber stamp affair and that is wrong. As is Resp Persons not understanding their duties.

When I was self employed, I often delivered my report by hand to customers and would talk them through the report. After the briefing, I would send a PDF version by e-mail with a confirmation of the briefing

(I would also insist for certain premises, that after the briefing, they paid in full before I left the report with them - especially the licensed trade who are notorious for not paying up!!) 

Smith900097  
#7 Posted : 01 June 2018 10:09:49(UTC)
Rank: New forum user
Smith900097

My partner was contacted yesterday by an employment agency asking if he was interested in carrying out some fire risk assessments.  He quoted the current fees that other consultants are charging per assessment and the fact that they are completing an average of 3 in a day.

My partner asked whether the agency considered if this was "right" in terms of the amount of time spent on each assessment.

A similar fee is charged for a noise assessment and takes two days.

Shouldn't we be monitoring this as a profession?  How is this work comparable?  Yes, the client needs to take responsibility for their expectations - but they often don't know what is meant by `suitable and sufficient' and rely on their consultant to tell them.  After all, we are the `competent person'.  Is part of the responsibility that of the agency also?  Condoning this greed?  Because this is what it appears to be to me.

Rant over.

Jackson43278  
#8 Posted : 04 June 2018 12:57:39(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Jackson43278

The fire industry has long been a den of pestilence with a few good operators but they are swimming in a sea of mediocre or downright corrupt ones. Be it servicing engineers with sales targets for flogging new equipment, crappy over-selling on detector systems, or very woeful fire risk assessments. (I got called by a client once to review a FRA where a FRA consultancy had taken their previous FRA for the site, put a new date on it, then submitted that as the new one, with an invoice of course, despite the site changing quite a bit in the meantime!).

Noise (my specialism these days) is little better, with companies expecting one person to churn out three reports a day using templated systems, which is simply not possible to do while still doing the job properly. 

But, should general H&S people 'regulate' it? No, sorry. My reasoning is that as bad as some FRA or noise operators are, I've come across some equally woeful general H&S people whom I wouldn't trust to buy a Mars Bar, never mind something like a fire risk assessment. Basic misunderstandings of the law, misunderstandings of what a FRA should and should not be, or just utter numpties who push paper around with very little understanding of what it means. And with noise a common hang-up that every single measurement has to be for eight hours because that's the duration of the exposure time used in the Regs - I've come across that one a lot over the years. Or telling me that 'every Category 3 hearing test result has to be removed from a noisy workpalce'. Just look at the number of H&S people always asking on here and on other sites for 'a template for a FRA' or for a noise assessment! If someone is asking for a template then to me chances are they shouldn't be doing it in the first place, especially for a FRA where every site is different. So yes, the fire industry is a nest of vipers, as can be noise, but even as someone with 23 years in H&S, I'm afraid I don't see H&S professionals as a group to be on any kind of exhalted ground and to whom power to monitor other professions should be given. Ideally the IOA and IFE would pick this up more strongly than they do currrently.

thanks 1 user thanked Jackson43278 for this useful post.
SNS on 04/06/2018(UTC)
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