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SBH  
#1 Posted : 19 February 2018 10:28:38(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
SBH

We have some contractors on site fitting new soffits and double glazing etc. They have erected scaffolding to access the tasks.  - I believe they should issue their own work at height permit based on their risk assessment, and we issue the permit to work once this has been evidenced - Any comments would be welcome.

SBH

David Bannister  
#2 Posted : 19 February 2018 10:45:19(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
David Bannister

Hi SBH, how your contractors control their work at height is largely matter for them. They may choose to issue permits or they may not, so long as their controls are adequate.

If you wish to control their work on your site by your own permit system, that is your choice, and you may stipulate whatever (reasonable) conditions you may wish prior to giving the go-ahead for work to be done.

However, getting them to use an unfamiliar system to satisfy your own system my not achieve much in the way of additional safety if they are already working to a good safety system.

Hope this helps

David

thanks 1 user thanked David Bannister for this useful post.
Kate on 19/02/2018(UTC)
RayRapp  
#3 Posted : 19 February 2018 11:02:00(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
RayRapp

In the scenario you have provided I cannot see what is the point of a W@H permit?

marksimonallen  
#4 Posted : 19 February 2018 21:07:47(UTC)
Rank: New forum user
marksimonallen

Just sharing my experiences on this forum and by no means telling anyone how it should be done.

A few questions I would ask is how they erected the scaffolding, the scaffolding would have been a WAH task in itself and as mentioned they erected it.  Whose system did they follow?  If the scaffold is erected and tagged are there restrictions, will the glazing personnel be working outside of the scaffold?

I work in a remote location where we have around 240 personnel, the majority are contract personnel plus we have around 6 to 8 subcontractors working on site.  The personnel are from various countries, language is an issue as well as differing acceptable safety standards.

We have a document setting out our contractor quality, health, safety, environment & security requirements.  In terms of Health & Safety this document covers:

  • Management of Health and Safety – Contractor’s Safety Management System
  • Management of Environmental Protection – Contractor’s Environmental Management System
  • Action to Rectify Breaches
  • Risk Assessment
  • HS&E Legislation
  • Incident Notification, Reporting and Investigation
  • Health, Safety and Environmental Audit
  • Training and Competence of Personnel
  • Health Assessment and Control
  • Spill Management

When we receive contract personnel on our site they are given the site induction and training in our safety management system (PTW,RA,TBT etc although another organisations RA’s are acceptable if suitable), some of this is completed online prior to arrival.  Once on our site all personnel are expected to follow our systems as a minimum, if a subcontracting company has measures going above and beyond ours then we of course encourage those measures.

 One of the major considerations with WAH for us is our remote location, we have no access to emergency services therefore, all WAH PTW’s must be accompanied with a rescue plan, we have on our sites trained WAH rescue personnel and certified/inspected WAH rescue equipment.

 As mentioned I’m by no means telling anyone how to run their sites, just sharing my experiences.

Poynter21205  
#5 Posted : 19 February 2018 21:38:56(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Poynter21205

Focus on choosing the appropriate protection, communicating the safe system to those involved and supervising the work. By all means use a 'permit' system if you think it helps to achieve the above. If not don't use. There is no legal requirement to use a 'permit'.
thunderchild  
#6 Posted : 20 February 2018 08:21:12(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
thunderchild

When I was in the construction game, the 2 PC's I worked for we never issued W@H permits or required them of our subbies (what their process was waht there proceedure). It was all about the controls, scaffold errection, inspection, toe boards, mid bars, copetency of the workers using it, waste chutes all that. I think the thought being (and I was only an assistant at the time) was that what added benifit did the permit offer? I don't think it actually makes them safer???? If you see what I mean?

Hsquared14  
#7 Posted : 20 February 2018 09:52:44(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Hsquared14

  Like most of the others I don't see what a PTW will do for you here.  A Permit to Work allows someone to do work that is outside the ordinary, work that needs special control or particular care.  In this scenario I can't see who is permitting what and who is being permitted.  Consider this scenario where a permit is valid:  Where I work we are having roof work done next week, I have the RAMS from the contractor, when they arrive on site we will check that the workers are familiar with the RAMS, we will check and make a note of the weather conditions at the time, we will check that proper precautions are in place on the ground to protect people at ground level and their access equipment and all other relevant factors.  When everyone is satisfied that the job can be done safely I will issue the permit that says that they are allowed on the roof.  In your scenario the contractor is issuing a permit to themselves which is a nonsense. 

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