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Boden31904  
#1 Posted : 19 February 2018 16:22:42(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Boden31904

Hello all,

I'm just about to do our annual FRA review. Someone has mentioned to me that the 5 glass offices we have should have a row of 'reflective film' fitted to it. This is so the firefighter can detect that it is glass in a black smoke filled room when their light shines on it. This would prevent the fire fighter exposing the glass to highly pressurised water stream.

I have never heard of this and cannot find anything referencing this on the internet (or even anyone selling this film).

Anyone heard of this requirement?

Lee

Messey  
#2 Posted : 19 February 2018 20:26:18(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Messey

Absolute nonsense

In England & wales, operational firefighters are not 'relevant persons' so you do not have to consider them during the FRA, other than for Article 38.

This Article refers to maintaining safety features for fire crews that are in place due to a legislative requirement. Glass markings do not feature in this.

In a smoke filled room in breathing apparatus, one can literally not see your hand in front of you. So firefighters rely on touch (and in some ways, thermal image cameras) as their torches are next to useless

watcher  
#3 Posted : 20 February 2018 14:17:59(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
watcher

I would be interested to know where they got their advice from. (which is what I - and I'm sure you - ask everytime someone tells me I need to do something)

Incidentally, nice to see the return of Messy/Mssy/Messey who always gives the soundest advice in anything to do with fire

thanks 1 user thanked watcher for this useful post.
Messey on 20/02/2018(UTC)
grim72  
#4 Posted : 20 February 2018 15:54:14(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
grim72

Never heard of a requirement for reflective on the glass before but glass walls etc should have some kind of marking on it to make it visibly apparant that it is a glass wall (usually frosted vinyl/graphics) so probably not as daft as it sounds. If they need to add glass highlighting and a reflective version would genuinely help out firefighters in a smoke filled room then hey, why not?

See Provision 14 of the Workplace (Health, Safety & Welfare) Regulations 1992. Clearly not related to the fire side of things however.

Windows, and transparent or translucent doors, gates and walls

14.—(1) Every window or other transparent or translucent surface in a wall or partition and every transparent or translucent surface in a door or gate shall, where necessary for reasons of health or safety—

(a)be of safety material or be protected against breakage of the transparent or translucent material; and

(b)be appropriately marked or incorporate features so as, in either case, to make it apparent.

Boden31904  
#5 Posted : 21 February 2018 07:53:00(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Boden31904

Apparently he was given the advice from the fire fighter that visits the premises!!!!

I'd never heard of it and I also knew that they walk around a building sweeping the back of their hands.

Messey  
#6 Posted : 21 February 2018 10:54:09(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Messey

Originally Posted by: Boden31904 Go to Quoted Post

Apparently he was given the advice from the fire fighter that visits the premises!!!!

I'd never heard of it and I also knew that they walk around a building sweeping the back of their hands.

Be wary of any technical fire safety advice from operational fire crews:

Water squirting firefighters who distribute fire safety advice can be a huge fire safety risk. Trust me, I know I have been there!!! After many years of operational firefighting, I ventured into the black art of fire safety. I was woefully ill prepared, but attempted a few risk assessments under the old 97 Workplace Regs.

I was winging it and probably would not have stood up to any real scrutiny. I felt very uncomfortable so, preparing myself for life after my fire service contract had ended, I moved to a fire safety inspectors role and went through various courses etc.  

The point of my confession is that competence is defined 'as having the necessary skills or experience or other qualities' to perform the job. With all respect to my former peers and those doing the job now, operational fire crews may have experience of fire, but should generally not be regards as not competent in fire safety to the level to perform as a fire safety practitioner

A good friend of mine works as air crew and has done for decades. She has flown tens of thounsands of miles and been to scores of different destinations. Does that make her a competent travel writer? Despite her travel experience, I would argue she might not have the skills to write professionally (except about wine - but that's another story!!) ;)

thanks 2 users thanked Messey for this useful post.
David Bannister on 21/02/2018(UTC), Safety Geek on 24/02/2018(UTC)
Ian Bell2  
#7 Posted : 21 February 2018 11:24:35(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Ian Bell2

I have often thought this. Just because a guy has been in the fire service and spent 30yrs squirting water, doesn't make him/her to be a competent fire risk assessor/engineer. Yet quite a few ex fire fighters set themselves up as fire risk assessors, based on perceived credibility. I'm often involved with designing fire safety/fire engineering solutions for oil/gas installations and other industrial buildings. Often from 1st principles - plant lay out, heat emission calculations, fire water demand calculations, fire compartment integrity, hydrant/sprinkler fire water designs etc. Does your average fighter get taught such topics. No doubt experienced fire fighters have a wealth of practical experience but that isn't everything.
thanks 1 user thanked Ian Bell2 for this useful post.
Safety Geek on 24/02/2018(UTC)
firesafety101  
#8 Posted : 26 February 2018 12:04:47(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
firesafety101

Highly pressurised water steam.

Please enlighten me about this as a fire fighting measure by attending firefighters

I won't get into the argument about ex operational firefighters and fire risk assessments.  They do have some fire safety training these days and a knowledge of practical fire spread and fighting but I certainly would not get involved with more than the basic fire risk assessment.

firesafety101  
#9 Posted : 26 February 2018 12:21:39(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
firesafety101

Originally Posted by: Boden31904 Go to Quoted Post

Apparently he was given the advice from the fire fighter that visits the premises!!!!

I'd never heard of it and I also knew that they walk around a building sweeping the back of their hands.

The FRS are happy to recieve calls for guidance on fire safety, I do that myself when unsure about something.

Why not call the frs fire safety department and ask them.

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