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johnwatt  
#1 Posted : 23 February 2018 18:24:30(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
johnwatt

Hello All, 

My place of work is responsible for a large number of national and international fieldtrips with staff and students travelling all over the world. A few members of staff are pushing hard for the provision of AED's on some of these trips. 

As health and safety manager my thoughts on this are already pretty clear. I have significant experience in the use of AED's, I was a casualty carer with the RNLI and first responder with the ambulance service. I also teach regulated outdoor first aid courses. I honestly do not believe that a case can be made to take such equipment into the field.

With the groups most often dispersed over a large area,  very delayed access to advanced medical care and what is essentially a group at low risk of cardiac arrest, I cannot see the justification. Not to mention they weight a fair bit and lumping one around in a rucksack is less than ideal. 

What's your thoughts? 

Roundtuit  
#2 Posted : 23 February 2018 23:58:37(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Roundtuit

Transportation of battery devices by air? Pretty sure these are now on most carriers restricted lists.

Dependent upon the location of the field trip may be considered excluded technology (current winter games some athletes were initially refused the smart phone being given to participants due to sanctions)

Would they immediately cancel the trip if upon atrrival the AED had been damaged in transit?

Expensive looking device in a parked vehicle with no one in attendance....

...and can we have a fully stocked field ambulance c/w medical professionals, satellite phone and a medi-vac chopper on stand-by?

100% with your considerations - if you believe you must have an AED for the trip don't plan it, clue is in the name "field" i.e. not a metropolis with all its facilities

Roundtuit  
#3 Posted : 23 February 2018 23:58:37(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Roundtuit

Transportation of battery devices by air? Pretty sure these are now on most carriers restricted lists.

Dependent upon the location of the field trip may be considered excluded technology (current winter games some athletes were initially refused the smart phone being given to participants due to sanctions)

Would they immediately cancel the trip if upon atrrival the AED had been damaged in transit?

Expensive looking device in a parked vehicle with no one in attendance....

...and can we have a fully stocked field ambulance c/w medical professionals, satellite phone and a medi-vac chopper on stand-by?

100% with your considerations - if you believe you must have an AED for the trip don't plan it, clue is in the name "field" i.e. not a metropolis with all its facilities

johnwatt  
#4 Posted : 25 February 2018 17:34:19(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
johnwatt

Thanks Roundtuit, completely agree with the points you made. 

If I had to carry an extra 3.5kg of emergency kits, there are many or things I would choose over an AED. 

A Kurdziel  
#5 Posted : 26 February 2018 09:44:12(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
A Kurdziel

Like the others I am not convinced about the use of AED in the field. The point of the AED is to stabilise the patient until they can be taken to hospital. In the UK that should happen within the first half hour after after using the AED. If they are on a fieldtrip looking at cotton crops in Uzbekistan or human remains in Olduvai gorge this will not happen. As has been noted in another posting you have a 10% (or less) chance of an AED actually working and bringing the patient back. What do you do as you try to keep them alive until help comes?

There are better things to carry with you eg sterile syringe needles and lines.

thanks 1 user thanked A Kurdziel for this useful post.
johnwatt on 26/02/2018(UTC)
grim72  
#6 Posted : 26 February 2018 10:29:16(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
grim72

I'm a fan of AEDs but can't see the justifcation in this scenario whatsoever. Much better off spending the money on good quality/more frequent first aid training that would give the field trip leaders a more varied set of skills along with competency in CPR etc that would more than cover the company's duty of care. 

thanks 2 users thanked grim72 for this useful post.
johnwatt on 26/02/2018(UTC), lorna on 26/02/2018(UTC)
johnwatt  
#7 Posted : 26 February 2018 10:42:00(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
johnwatt

Yeah, i am in agreement with all points made. 

Fieldtrip leaders and other staff/some post graduate students are trained in Fieldwork First Aid as a minimum. Those operating the in the more remote enviroment to an additional Expedition First Aid which looks focus more on expedition medicine. 

I am keen to look at some bespoke emergency care check cards though, I feel something like this is likely to be of more use and can mitigate skill fade. 

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