Welcome Guest! The IOSH forums are a free resource to both members and non-members. Login or register to use them

Postings made by forum users are personal opinions. IOSH is not responsible for the content or accuracy of any of the information contained in forum postings. Please carefully consider any advice you receive.

Notification

Icon
Error

Options
Go to last post Go to first unread
murtymurry  
#1 Posted : 15 March 2018 10:37:57(UTC)
Rank: New forum user
murtymurry

Hi,

Need some advice, an employee, while on a break went to his car but forgot his fob to scan out, so he scaled an 8ft spiked fence into the carpark and in doing so broke his foot when he hit the ground.  There was no witnesses to this event, but I am confident this is what happened as you couldn't make it up really!!

I assume this is reportable as a lost time injury since it happened on the premises??  It was not work related, he was acting in an unexpected and uncontrolled manner which we will be deeming as gross misconduct.

Anyone any advice for me or has been in a similar situation, oh and can I sack him??

Thanks

Kate  
#2 Posted : 15 March 2018 10:44:37(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Kate

HSE's definition of a work-related accident is here:

http://www.hse.gov.uk/riddor/key-definitions.htm#work-related

That it happened on company premises does not alone make it work-related.

Edited by user 15 March 2018 10:49:41(UTC)  | Reason: Changed the last word to the one I meant

thanks 1 user thanked Kate for this useful post.
Charlie Brown on 15/03/2018(UTC)
A Kurdziel  
#3 Posted : 15 March 2018 10:52:43(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
A Kurdziel

Probably not- jumping over fences was not part of his job I assume and the fence was not intended as an alternative access route?

Andrew W Walker  
#4 Posted : 15 March 2018 10:53:22(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Andrew W Walker

Not reportable- IMHO.

Charlie Brown  
#5 Posted : 15 March 2018 11:09:40(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Charlie Brown

As this incident has nothing to do with the employees' work I can't see it being a reportable incident.

Kate  
#6 Posted : 15 March 2018 11:13:50(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Kate

By the way, if it was reportable it would be as a specified injury (fracture) not a lost-time injury (unless it was only his toes that were broken)

But indeed, unless the 8 ft spiked fence was intended as an access route (...) it's not reportable.

murtymurry  
#7 Posted : 15 March 2018 11:18:22(UTC)
Rank: New forum user
murtymurry

Thanks everyone, very helpful

Hsquared14  
#8 Posted : 15 March 2018 12:49:09(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Hsquared14

I agree with everyone else - this is not work related as it is not in the course of his employment so not reportable.  You need to keep a record of it though as it could be construed as mis-conduct.

peter gotch  
#9 Posted : 15 March 2018 12:50:37(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
peter gotch

Is there more to this story?

How was he going to get back into work without his fob? If the answer is tailgating you have a security problem?

How was he going to get back out of the car park? Back across the fence? Is it that easy to scale the fence TWICE to not influence his decision to simply go back to collect his fob?

...and why do you want to sack him? He's probably very embarrassed already!

murtymurry  
#10 Posted : 15 March 2018 13:23:06(UTC)
Rank: New forum user
murtymurry

Yes, I agree there may be more to this I am currently investigating. There is another gate to the front that is open all the time so there was no excuse.  Maybe sack was too strong a word but I will be recommending disiplinary action as it was misconduct and he obviously has no regard for his own safety so I am a bit concerned that his attitude to safety while he is in the workplace may not be good either. As safety manager I will not tolerate unsafe behaviour anywhere on the site, if I did I would not be doing my job and keeping people safe.

Bigmac1  
#11 Posted : 15 March 2018 18:40:32(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Bigmac1

Stupidity and not reportable

thanks 1 user thanked Bigmac1 for this useful post.
lorna on 16/03/2018(UTC)
biker1  
#12 Posted : 16 March 2018 12:01:14(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
biker1

Scaling an eight foot fence to get out of a carpark when there are usual means of access does not strike me as the actions of someone playing with a full deck. It's probably reportable, but perhaps not to the HSE.

WatsonD  
#13 Posted : 16 March 2018 12:09:55(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
WatsonD

Not reportable but not quite stupid enough to be shorlisted for a Darwin award http://www.darwinawards.com/darwin/

thanks 1 user thanked WatsonD for this useful post.
Andrew W Walker on 16/03/2018(UTC)
A Kurdziel  
#14 Posted : 19 March 2018 09:24:42(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
A Kurdziel

Originally Posted by: WatsonD Go to Quoted Post

Not reportable but not quite stupid enough to be shorlisted for a Darwin award http://www.darwinawards.com/darwin/

Note: To achieve a Darwin award one must take oneself out of the gene pool by having an accident that either kills you or renders you incapable of having children. This was clearly not the case and therefore should be filed under “try harder”.

thanks 1 user thanked A Kurdziel for this useful post.
WatsonD on 19/03/2018(UTC)
WatsonD  
#15 Posted : 19 March 2018 09:40:42(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
WatsonD

Originally Posted by: A Kurdziel Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: WatsonD Go to Quoted Post

Not reportable but not quite stupid enough to be shorlisted for a Darwin award http://www.darwinawards.com/darwin/

Note: To achieve a Darwin award one must take oneself out of the gene pool by having an accident that either kills you or renders you incapable of having children. This was clearly not the case and therefore should be filed under “try harder”.

Which is why I said not quite stupid enough for a Darwin award. Though it does seem to me he is making some real inroads LOL

A Kurdziel  
#16 Posted : 19 March 2018 10:10:15(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
A Kurdziel

Originally Posted by: WatsonD Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: A Kurdziel Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: WatsonD Go to Quoted Post

Not reportable but not quite stupid enough to be shorlisted for a Darwin award http://www.darwinawards.com/darwin/

Note: To achieve a Darwin award one must take oneself out of the gene pool by having an accident that either kills you or renders you incapable of having children. This was clearly not the case and therefore should be filed under “try harder”.

Which is why I said not quite stupid enough for a Darwin award. Though it does seem to me he is making some real inroads LOL

Aplogies- to punish myself for not reading  your postingI will read all of RIDDOR plus the guidance in Welsh 

thanks 1 user thanked A Kurdziel for this useful post.
WatsonD on 19/03/2018(UTC)
LeanneD  
#17 Posted : 19 March 2018 15:46:57(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
LeanneD

Originally Posted by: murtymurry Go to Quoted Post

Hi,

Need some advice, an employee, while on a break went to his car but forgot his fob to scan out, so he scaled an 8ft spiked fence into the carpark and in doing so broke his foot when he hit the ground.  There was no witnesses to this event, but I am confident this is what happened as you couldn't make it up really!!

I assume this is reportable as a lost time injury since it happened on the premises??  It was not work related, he was acting in an unexpected and uncontrolled manner which we will be deeming as gross misconduct.

Anyone any advice for me or has been in a similar situation, oh and can I sack him??

Thanks

Do you have the power to sack him?  I thought the role of H&S was to ensure safety, not aportion blame and end people's careers?  Is that not the job of HR?

your post seems very accusatory.  you make assumptions on what happened (because apparently you couldnt make it up) and seem to think stupid action = gross misconduct.

Not tolerating idiodic and dangerous behaviour is one thing but calling for people's heads because of it is another (IMHO obviously).

To answer your questions , as many have before me, i would say it is not reportable however, perhaps the company should look at access routes to the carpark to see if they are in the mostuser friendly place to avoid people being tempted to scale 8ft fences in the future, and no - i dont think you should sack him, he has more than learnt his lesson from his poor choices.

Anderson8  
#18 Posted : 19 March 2018 15:53:23(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Anderson8

As some have correctly said, not work related so not reportable in my view.

Thanks

A Kurdziel  
#19 Posted : 19 March 2018 16:46:36(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
A Kurdziel

What seems to have happened was that they guy forgot or misplaced his ‘fob’ which would allow him to return his workplace. I am assuming that here was a procedure for him to get back in without his fob but it would have involved him going to the gatehouse or similar to be allowed back in and his name might have been taken and he might have been asked to explain why he was not carrying his fob. The security staff would also have been very sarcastic and generally unsympathetic.

This, of course can be analysed using the ABC model- Antecedents, Behaviour, Consequences

Many years ago I was working in University department it was decided that we should have swipe only to our building; it was on a hospital site remote from the main campus. The professor in charge came in one morning, just after this had been set up and had forgotten his badge. So he shoulder charged the door and broke in! Surprisingly no disciplinary action was taken against him since he was the professor!

Boden31904  
#20 Posted : 20 March 2018 16:22:56(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Boden31904

Absolutely 100% NOT reportable. Nothing to do with the organisation.

Users browsing this topic
You cannot post new topics in this forum.
You cannot reply to topics in this forum.
You cannot delete your posts in this forum.
You cannot edit your posts in this forum.
You cannot create polls in this forum.
You cannot vote in polls in this forum.