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mottaway  
#1 Posted : 23 March 2018 13:22:56(UTC)
Rank: New forum user
mottaway

Afternoon

Brief overview of the situation. In 2017 my client had a visitor to their UK HQ injured (leg bruised, apparently serious enough for A&E) by a closing access control barrier (speed gate style retracting wings) when his host tried to swipe him through from the wrong side. The root cause was clearly failure of process on the part of the host and since the incident, changes have been made to the visitor management procedures to ensure that hosts are reminded at the time of the correct process to follow. All very well recieved and seemingly working well.

That said, the guy who was injured in the incident seems to be trying to build a case against my client for the injury he sustained, which is questionable in my opinion however as it's not beyong the realms of the possible they are listening to his complaint. As a result, my client has asked me and my team to go back over the investigation we carried out and confirm a number of points. As part of his query, he has raised a curveball which I'm struggling with and would appreciate some views on please. The question is, do/should security gates have a maximum/upper limit on the amount of force they close with to prevent serious injury from occouring in the event of an incident, such as the one experienced?

My initial thoughts were, given that they are security gates that they are designed and installed to maintain security and thus ensure no unauthorised access, and as part of that - close quickly and securly the answer would be no. They have as we originally identified done what they said on the tin and stopped an unauthorised access from happening. The units have visual and audible alarms on them when the access protocols are not followed correctly - IE trying to enter from the wrong side etc...

I've tried to get a view from the manufacture and they basically state that as the job is to provide a managed access solution - they design the units to focus on that requirement and do not build protection into their design as it would fundamentally compromise the unit and reduce it's effectiveness.

I'd be interested to understand what others views might be on this. My client has the view that they are there to provide a safe and secure work environment, but ultimately they don't expect to be inflicting damage to staff or visitors. I agree with him to a point, but if the gates are that much of a concern after one recorded incident which has been proven to be a process failure on the part of people - then they should remove the barriers altogether and manage access through more labour intensive means.

Happy to be talked around of course...

Thanks

Mike

LeanneD  
#2 Posted : 23 March 2018 13:35:37(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
LeanneD

We have access gates (or more specifically egress gates) where i work but as far as i was aware, whist their job is to maintain security, they should still have fail safe measures in them to prevent injury to anyone caught in the crossfire as it were.

I think ours have a sensor so that if they detect someone still moving through the gate area they do not close on said person. 

lorna  
#3 Posted : 23 March 2018 14:12:15(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
lorna

Had something similar if you want to PM me - I won't discuss it on an open forum.

Ian Bell2  
#4 Posted : 23 March 2018 14:49:11(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Ian Bell2

A bit of a long shot - the access gates & control could well be designed to a British Standard or European standard. Many standards can be quite generic, but you might strike lucky and find the information you are looking for by identifying (if any) what standard was used to design the access barrier etc.

Might be expensive though, as British Standards can b expensive.

No idea what the number of the standard is, try searching on the British Standards shop website.

chris42  
#5 Posted : 23 March 2018 16:06:18(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
chris42

Originally Posted by: mottaway Go to Quoted Post

I've tried to get a view from the manufacture and they basically state that as the job is to provide a managed access solution - they design the units to focus on that requirement and do not build protection into their design as it would fundamentally compromise the unit and reduce it's effectiveness.


Similar thing but gates are they certain they should not provide something safe ?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-south-east-wales-27816688

Kate  
#6 Posted : 24 March 2018 12:53:30(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Kate

There was a scare about gates a few years ago after a gate closed on someone.  This led to a safety alert from the HSE and to gate manufacturers contacting their customers to confirm that their gates had the required safety features or to propose upgrading them. 

http://www.hse.gov.uk/safetybulletins/electricgates2.htm

Edited by user 24 March 2018 12:56:44(UTC)  | Reason: Add link

lorna  
#7 Posted : 26 March 2018 07:11:47(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
lorna

I've sent a private response but if you can manage to wade through the technical manual (ours was 165 pages), you'll find that there are LOTS of safety measures. If the gates are used correctly, there's no problem. Even if you don't, many are alarmed (loudly), will close before the person reaches the gate/wing or stay open when a certain sensor is passed. 

As for the HSE guidance on gates, it was a big external gates that closed on a small child - too small to be detected by the sensors - I've followed it where I can for the speed gates but they really are a very different 'beast'.

Edited by user 26 March 2018 07:13:27(UTC)  | Reason: Added something

paul.skyrme  
#8 Posted : 27 March 2018 19:43:40(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
paul.skyrme

The installed barrier or gate is a machine as per the Machinery Directive, if you check the trade federation website they will confirm this, and yes is is the same family of product that killed a child.

You need to ensure that you have a DoC for the installation from the installer, if you haven’t then you could find yourself in trouble PUWER Reg 10.

I trust that there is a PUWER assessment on the equipment, and if so you will have a DoC from the installer with all the relevant paperwork and the poof that the gate / barrier is force limited.

Which if obviously isn’t because there has been an injury.

So due process has not been followed.

End user has obviously breached PUWER, gate installer has breached SMSR.  If they hadn't then the injury would not have been possible.

Get it sorted, and make sure it can’t hurt anyone else.

As far as the case goes, good luck, I'd think about how much you are going to pay out, rather than defending the case, and then, what you are going to do if HSE come knocking, because they should be, on two doors, the end user, and the installer.

 

fairlieg  
#9 Posted : 28 March 2018 07:43:48(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
fairlieg

you might find that the motion sensors are activated on the side of the gates that the proxy card has been swiped, that feature limits the ability to do exactly what your clients staff memeber did.  Reason being so that when someone exists they will have very limited time to turn and re-enter without swiping back in (i.e. they cant be signed out when they are actually in the building), and it also prevents someone entering from opposite side by chance when some opens the gate from their side so they can be in but not signed in.

This likley happend due to the way the gates were being used but you would really need to understand how they are designed to establish that.  Regarding the client side they really should have a system in place that prevent this type of use (or makes it difficult) or makes it easier to comply with the access policy? 

stillp  
#10 Posted : 31 March 2018 17:33:19(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
stillp

Paul's right, it's a machine and isn't allowed to injure somebody just because they approached it from the wrong direction.

Check out the powered gates guidance on the HSE website.

Stuart Smiles  
#11 Posted : 11 April 2018 21:11:53(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Stuart Smiles

was at university this afternoon and gate closed on daughter following me through gate. bounced her to floor (she's 2.5) was fine going through, but way back it caught her. came out with mark on head, crying and she was a bit shaken. 

took a while to get her calmed down, hadn't considered to be excessively risky, however perhaps should have been more concerned about risk at the time. 

where would a normal user find out make/model of gates to do investigation or source from health and safety team to confirm closing force and or backoff calibration

Kate  
#12 Posted : 12 April 2018 08:08:52(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Kate

It should be reported to the university (if that's whose gate it was) for them to investigate and you can ask for updates on the progress of that investigation.

thanks 1 user thanked Kate for this useful post.
A Kurdziel on 12/04/2018(UTC)
stillp  
#13 Posted : 12 April 2018 20:40:36(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
stillp

If a powered gate had injured one of my children, however slightly, I'd be reporting it to HSE.

Bigmac1  
#14 Posted : 15 April 2018 11:32:29(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Bigmac1

Plus this is RIDDOR reportable too

Kate  
#15 Posted : 15 April 2018 12:48:56(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Kate

RIDDOR reportable as what?

Bigmac1  
#16 Posted : 15 April 2018 14:38:11(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Bigmac1

Originally Posted by: Kate Go to Quoted Post

RIDDOR reportable as what?

an accident to a non employee who was taken to hospital

Kate  
#17 Posted : 15 April 2018 14:56:52(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Kate

In the case of the OP yes (if they went directly to hospital).  I thought you were talking about the second example which was why I questioned it.

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