Is he genuinely worried that the rope escape / training is dangerous or is there something else behind this reluctance?

Edited by user 18 April 2018 12:48:28(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

You should be referring to the HSE Guidance Note PM28 Working Platforms (non-integrated) on Forklift trucks, the Provision and Use of Work Equipment Regulations and specifically the Work at Height Regulations (WAH) and the heirarchy for work at work. All are free to download on the HSE website.

In particular the WAH sections on:

• organisation and planning
• competence
• selection of work equipment for work at height which includes "the need for easy and timely evacuation and rescue in an emergency"

Certain regulations have duties which are stronger than so far as is....If you are still having no joy, because the above backs up what you and the training orgnaisation are saying, then personally I would get the senior manager/director to put in writing the reasons why your advice is being ignored as what he is suggesting breaches legal requirement and is palcing people at risk.

If you still have no look I would raise to the HSE. 

I hope you get the resolution you are looking for. 

If it's about loss of face then you need to give him a way to save face, this could be by telling him how much you appreciate his concerns about safety and that you understand that on the face of it rope escape sounds crazy, but you have come up with some additional information (as suggested above) which throws some light on the matter, give him an opportunity to change his mind in the light of the new information, and perhaps even apologise that you didn't give him all this information in the first place to make it look like it is your fault and not his.

Just to play devils advocate a moment. We are saying that in the event of an emergency situation ie the equipment breaks down while at height, there is a need to be able to escape and get back to ground level safely as per all HSE guidance etc noted above.

However, we are also saying that the use of ladders for this is not acceptable because it will take too long to get the ladders there. However, is this only an issue if you have a second emergency situation at exactly the same time ie a fire.

What are the odds of that happening? The equipment malfunctions at the same time as a fire?

Issues about climbing out to get to the ladder is surly the same as getting out to abseil down a rope, so the argument loses a little effect.

I think these issues as well as saving face are the issues you need to overcome. All the law and guidance suggest is a means of escape is needed, unless someone can actually find something that states abseiling is the preferred option. If anyone was going to know that, it would be the person selling the training, who are biased.

To help with convincing him, I would also note that ladder training would be required and then you have issues of tying off the ladder and someone footing it, where abseiling can be done just by the operative who is stuck. Additionally, if there are ladders around then there will be a temptation to use them for other things as well as rescue. Don’t know if there is a significant difference between a climbing rope and a ladder in terms of cost, but I suspect that each piece of equipment needs it own rope, were you may get away with one ladder. If you can try and show it is financially better to use a rope.

This does work as yesterday after months and many managers trying to sort out a particular issue. I pointed out the cost of damage to some equipment and the loss from downtime (oh and by the way putting 400v through an employee may be considered bad form) I also gave him a way of saving face. Low and behold he agreed to get the issue sorted – result!

As I said just to play devil’s advocate.

Chris

Previous place I worked ours went up to around 12 meters, that would be one hell of a ladder!

We could drop ours down via a hydraulic release, but if that wasn’t possible then abseiling was the option, however not all operators where capable of doing this due to fitness levels and quite simply not wanting too.

You would have to be really unlucky to get stuck up in the air the same time as a fire occurring.

Any Working at Height operations where people are involved require a suitable and sufficient rescue plan in place (by LAW) (HSE Working at Height guidance paper) and this must be written into any risk assessment also.  Relying on someone else going and getting a ladder is totally unacceptable.  There other sources of rescue though other than ropes.  Check out Eursafe Solutions, they have a new self-rescue harness which is like a back pack which employees would need to wear all the time when operationg man-up equipment.  Very little training is also required for these.  Worth looking into.