Welcome Guest! The IOSH forums are a free resource to both members and non-members. Login or register to use them

Postings made by forum users are personal opinions. IOSH is not responsible for the content or accuracy of any of the information contained in forum postings. Please carefully consider any advice you receive.

Notification

Icon
Error

Options
Go to last post Go to first unread
ncann88  
#1 Posted : 11 May 2018 09:50:45(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
ncann88

Good morning all, 

The company I work for rent an accomodation unit to another company who provide respite care to vulnerable young people. 

Part of the agreement is they can make the necessary changes to this building to ensure its suitable for their purposes with our consent. 

There are usually 3 people staying in the building, 2 adult support workers and 1 vulnerable young person. 

The building has 2 floors with an entrance and fire exit on the ground florr and a fire exit on the first floor. The way it is arranged means that the staff sleep in the rooms with the fire exit and the young person in the room on the first floor, without fire exit. 

The doors to the staff bedrooms are locked with yale type locks partly for security of staff and partly to give the young person less routes to run away by (highly likely with some of the young people).  

I'm just updating our Fire Risk Assessment to take these changes into account but wanted to see what peoples opinions were regarding keeping the young person safe from running away and still meaning they can escape in the event of fire. 

The building is fitted with emergency lighting, smoke and heat detectors and they apparently do a practice fire drill with everyone staying once a month. 

Thoughts? Where would we stand if the worst happened? 

Thanks 

Nick 

O'Donnell54548  
#2 Posted : 11 May 2018 10:21:22(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
O'Donnell54548

Originally Posted by: ncann88 Go to Quoted Post

Good morning all, 

The company I work for rent an accomodation unit to another company who provide respite care to vulnerable young people. 

Part of the agreement is they can make the necessary changes to this building to ensure its suitable for their purposes with our consent. 

There are usually 3 people staying in the building, 2 adult support workers and 1 vulnerable young person. 

The building has 2 floors with an entrance and fire exit on the ground florr and a fire exit on the first floor. The way it is arranged means that the staff sleep in the rooms with the fire exit and the young person in the room on the first floor, without fire exit. 

The doors to the staff bedrooms are locked with yale type locks partly for security of staff and partly to give the young person less routes to run away by (highly likely with some of the young people).  

I'm just updating our Fire Risk Assessment to take these changes into account but wanted to see what peoples opinions were regarding keeping the young person safe from running away and still meaning they can escape in the event of fire. 

The building is fitted with emergency lighting, smoke and heat detectors and they apparently do a practice fire drill with everyone staying once a month. 

Thoughts? Where would we stand if the worst happened? 

Thanks 

Nick 

You say that there is an entrance and a fire exit on the ground floor, where is the fire exit, is it in one of the staff bedrooms which is locked? and one fire exit on the second floor where the VP sleeps. Where is this exit located?  

kmason83  
#3 Posted : 11 May 2018 10:40:29(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
kmason83

A lot of schools particularly primary have this problem in education we tend to deal with it through the use of mag locked doors with the realease buttons placed higher up out of reach of the youngster who wants to run out. The mag lock will release with the fire alarm and as usually the pupils leaving the building are supervised by an adult if the magnet does not reales they can access the controls in a safe amount of time to allow safe egress.

You can also look into defeatable fire exit securty devices although as it says on the tin these have to be defeatable to allow safe easy egress in an emergency. 

Messey  
#4 Posted : 11 May 2018 23:50:03(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Messey

Originally Posted by: ncann88 Go to Quoted Post

The company I work for rent an accomodation unit to another company who provide respite care to vulnerable young people. 

Part of the agreement is they can make the necessary changes to this building to ensure its suitable for their purposes with our consent. .......................

.................I'm just updating our Fire Risk Assessment to take these changes into account

 

Nick, Do you mind if I ask why are you completeing a FRA review if you are not the Responsible Person or his representitive?

It seems to me that if your company have rented out a premises to a third party, then they become the RP for that demise

thanks 1 user thanked Messey for this useful post.
N Hancock on 14/05/2018(UTC)
Charlie Brown  
#5 Posted : 12 May 2018 22:55:20(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Charlie Brown

I agree with Messey, It is up to the tennant to put their own arrangements in place.

ncann88  
#6 Posted : 04 June 2018 10:31:48(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
ncann88

Thank you for your comments. Sorry for the delay in replying. 

The premises is on our site and we assume responsibiltiy for the maintenance of the fabric of the building, statury inspections etc.

At what point do we stop being the responsible person? I appreciate that it would be far better for them to carry out a risk assessment based on their use of the building. However, lets say the worst happens and they can't get out of the building due to their locked fire exits. Who is ultimately responsible? Us becasue it is our building and we should have control over what goes on or, the company renting the accomodation because they are the ones using it etc?

Thanks

Nick

kmason83  
#7 Posted : 05 June 2018 13:56:30(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
kmason83

Hi Nick 

Duty exists to those who are deemed to have control of premises in the your case both yourselves (the landlord) and the tennant  have duties under the various acts, with focus on your particular issue this means that in terms of the operation of the door meaning is it fit for pupose, does it operate properly any maintenance, repairs, statuatory inspections you would pick up particulry as you state you have assumed this duty ( I will presume as part of the terms of your agreement). You state that the there are fire exits in rooms where staff are sleeping, and it seems to me there are a number of operational safety issues that need to be addessed but your duty lies in seeking assurances of safe working practice with the property you are renting. So I would complete your risk assessmnet and raise the issues with the tennant, place a risk factor on each issue and ask that it be addressed in a timely manner. Usually they would as a service provider to young persons be under the instruction of some governmant reglatory body for standards (not that we trust anyone in government about fire safety at the minute) and so its up to you as to wether you offer to provide assistance in resoloution and/or remidial actions (by this I mean guidence and prehaps contractor enagement assistance should it be required). It may be that they have a complex safe system of work and other mitigating factors in operation as long as they respond approriatley and ensure you they are working safely you have fulfilled your duty. 

Users browsing this topic
You cannot post new topics in this forum.
You cannot reply to topics in this forum.
You cannot delete your posts in this forum.
You cannot edit your posts in this forum.
You cannot create polls in this forum.
You cannot vote in polls in this forum.