Hi everyone,

We currently require an additional First Aider at one of our business locations to cover holidays/absences etc. I sent out details on the one day EFAW course and spoke to our employees about the training in order to get some volunteers. I was hoping for a couple of names however have received zero!

Understandably, the question of an annual payment was raised by the employees and I have been informed by those in charge that there will simply be no payments or incentives introduced for First Aiders. As much as this isn't ideal and is very short sighted from management; we're clearly not going to get anywhere with volunteers. I have therefore been asked if we can force an employee to undertake training in First Aid.

My own thoughts on this are: techincally yes we can under section 7 of HASAWA. However, what if someone is squeamish or faints at the sight of blood etc?

Any thoughts and advice on this will be greatly appreciated.

Thanks in advance!

Edited by user 07 June 2018 09:35:59(UTC)  | Reason: Typo!

The word in Section 7 (b) of the Health and Safety at Work Act is “cooperate” which implies work with for their mutual benefit.  The idea that someone might be “forced” to become a first aider is I think outside the scope of the act and I doubt if it could be enforced.   Any attempt force people to do this will probably run afoul of employment law and possible human rights law.

On a purely practical point do your really want people working as first aiders who are forced to do it?  They will find excuses not to do it –don’t like the sight of blood; I am too busy etc.

Thank you both for your responses. 

I have never encountered this issue before as we normally have no issues obtaining volunteers; in fact it's normally the opposite and we end up with too many volunteers. This only seems to be a problem in this one location and have I tried to sell the idea to the employees several times; even using the old argument that first aid can be used outside of work and may even be used to help a family member but it hasn't worked.

I agree that the last thing I want is for someone to become a First Aider who does not actually want to be one. I certianly wouldn't want to become a First Aider against my will. The problem I have however is due to the management not permitting any form of payment or incentives we really are in a sticky situation. Apart from the fact we are failing under the First Aid Regulations, our employees are being put at risk in this location during certain times.

The contractual obligation is a good idea Kate and I will speak with HR regarding this for new starts.

Thanks again for your input/

I'm somewhat sceptical of  the concept of forcing someone to be a first-aider, even a new start.

What if you get someone who faints at the sight or thought of blood?  They aren't going to be terribly effective first-aider. 

I have to admit that I stopped being a first-aider myself when I fainted in a refresher course (I don't have a problem with blood, but I get quite light-headed at the thought of non-visible internal injuries, and I feel the blood rushing in my ears now now even in anticipation of typing 'ruptured spleen').  I've actually always been fine in the moment - even with potential internal injuries - it's the thought, not the actuality, but I can't get through the training course!

Forcing someone who doesn't want it to be a first aider is going to look an awful lot like constructive dismissal, but that will be one for HR / the lawyers.

The concept of insisting on FAAW qualification for new starters needs to be very carefully deployed.

Are you going to turn down the best qualified applicant because they can't do first aid?

Will they become liable for dismissal when their certificate lapses even if through no fault of their own?

Will it be applied to all new recruits (love the idea of a CEO rushing from the middle of a shareholders meeting to the shop floor to administer mouth to mouth)?

You can press as many course attendees as you wish - just don't be surprised if despite the trainers 100% success rate your nominee becomes their first to repeatedly fail.

Edited by user 07 June 2018 12:29:56(UTC)  | Reason: FFS

I assume that the OP has undertaken an assessment of first aid needs - as per Regulation 3 of The H&S (First Aid Regs.

Has this assessment shown that they need people qualified for EFAW or FAW, however this assessment may identify just the need for an Appointed Person who looks after first aid equipment and raises calls to the ambulance services.  Perhaps the working areas may only need an AP and this maybe a better approach to getting someone to "volunteer" as it appears that the OP already has first aid trained personnel, just short on numbers.  A blend of AP and trained EFAW or FAW staff may satify the assessment.

Originally Posted by: Sgallacher27

I believe the basis of the issue is related to the culture in the workplace; not so much health and safety culture but more so the grievance towards management. The guys on the shop floor don't exactly work in harmony with the management! One of the managers in the area is already fully trained in first aid however he is rarely on site.

I think you have your answer.  I would suggest that getting first aiders is a weak signal and you should share this higer up, need to sort out how this has come about. Shop Floor? what kind of work do you do there? In high risk environments the dis/mistrust can lead to really serious issues/failings.