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shecar  
#1 Posted : 21 July 2018 08:52:54(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
shecar

Okay - so during a site visit yesterday I had the pleasure of observing a number of bellies hanging out all over the place!

A few of the guys - some working in machines, some on the ground, slabbing, kerbing etc, had decided that due to the hot weather they would cast off the t shirts - keeping hi vis vests only.

Now, working in Wales, this hot weather is something of a rarity, their arguement - "site rules dictate the wearing of Hi Vis, Hard Hats, Safety Boots, Eye/Ear protection etc" - They were certainly following rules, as written ................ What now?

Kate  
#2 Posted : 21 July 2018 12:14:53(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Kate

What is your objection - aesthetics, hygiene or sunburn risk?

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shecar on 23/07/2018(UTC), A Kurdziel on 25/07/2018(UTC)
Hsquared14  
#3 Posted : 23 July 2018 07:50:32(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Hsquared14

Print out the advice about preventing sunburn - "Slap on a hat, Slip on a shirt, Slop on the cream"

Most construction sites I have visited had a long sleeves rule, lightweight cotton can be more comfortable than bare skin.  Your site, your rules.

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shecar on 23/07/2018(UTC)
RayRapp  
#4 Posted : 23 July 2018 09:10:01(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
RayRapp

I'm with Kate, what is the problem with construction workers only wearing a hi-vis vest in hot weather? Please, please, don't mention sun burn!

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O'Donnell54548 on 25/07/2018(UTC)
Hsquared14  
#5 Posted : 23 July 2018 10:46:27(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Hsquared14

Originally Posted by: RayRapp Go to Quoted Post

I'm with Kate, what is the problem with construction workers only wearing a hi-vis vest in hot weather? Please, please, don't mention sun burn!

Ray - why shouldn't we mention sun-burn?  Absenteeism due to sun-burn, heat stroke, sun stroke and skin cancer rates on the rise mean that this is a conversation we need to have.  We aren't used to this sort of weather in the UK and the NHS is already seeing a rise in A&E visits, GP visits and hospital admissions because of it.  At work we can (and should?) control what people expose themselves to.  I'm not advocating a nanny state but we need to have the conversation with people if for no other reason than to cut down on absence rates.

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shecar on 23/07/2018(UTC)
RayRapp  
#6 Posted : 23 July 2018 11:32:21(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
RayRapp

Why...because workers head to toe in PPE melting in the heat would laugh if you mentioned sun burn. Sure, let them know if you must about using sun cream, but for God's sake lets not treat them like children.

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shecar on 23/07/2018(UTC), O'Donnell54548 on 24/07/2018(UTC)
Woolf13  
#7 Posted : 23 July 2018 11:35:30(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Woolf13

Haha, I love the contractor's response. Always thinking of new ways to to try and get around rules and standards.

I had this before and my simple response was: "do you see any sun loungers and a pool, no you do not as you are not on holiday you are at work." We have a duty of care to protect people and if they want to uncover that is fine, but in their own time.

Protection of workers, especially in these hot conditions, from the sun and UV rays is critical. It is not just safety at work, remember it is health you also have a duty of care for. Unfortunately there have also been claims against companies where individuals have developed skin cancer as a result of sun exposure (which may not have been at work) and the company has been unable to demonstrate it risk assessed the conditions and provided preventative measures.

The link below provides some useful resource material to utilise:

http://www.hse.gov.uk/skin/sunprotect.htm

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shecar on 23/07/2018(UTC)
Kate  
#8 Posted : 23 July 2018 12:21:07(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Kate

A T-shirt isn't what you'd normally recommend for protection against sunburn, which is why I am a bit puzzled, and wonder if the objection is more about disgust than worker protection.

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shecar on 23/07/2018(UTC)
Hsquared14  
#9 Posted : 23 July 2018 12:34:54(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Hsquared14

Originally Posted by: Kate Go to Quoted Post

A T-shirt isn't what you'd normally recommend for protection against sunburn, which is why I am a bit puzzled, and wonder if the objection is more about disgust than worker protection.

Sorry Kate but I disagree - when in Australia my nephew's wife (Hospital Consultant at Brisbane) was very clear that the best protection was either to stay out of the sun or to wear cotton T-shirts and shorts.   Suncreen is at best only a panacea and in Australia they do not rely on it as a primary form of sun protection.   Please read the article in this link

https://www.cancerresearchuk.org/about-cancer/causes-of-cancer/sun-uv-and-cancer/ways-to-enjoy-the-sun-safely

and this one:  https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-44924406

and this one:  https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/sunburn/

Do you guys need any more information to convince you to Slap - Slip - Slop?  Slap on a hat, Slip on a top and Slop on the cream!!

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shecar on 23/07/2018(UTC)
shecar  
#10 Posted : 23 July 2018 12:37:28(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
shecar

So, the general concensus is split!

I am sympathetic to the Contractors on this subject - but bottom line is, it's a case of covering their torso's to cover my backside!

I am only too aware of the uncomfortable conditions on site, but also have a healthy regard for where the 'blame culture' is taking us, which is why I asked the question in the first place.

Thank you for everybodies input, it has been helpful.

Regards

Sheila

Hsquared14  
#11 Posted : 23 July 2018 13:05:58(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Hsquared14

There is also material on the HSE website but I didn't quote it because no one seems to be bothered about their advice at the moment!!

If the PPE is too hot in this weather then get stuff that is suitable for the conditions, they do in other countries - as my Antipodean relatives would say - simple as!!

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shecar on 23/07/2018(UTC)
Kate  
#12 Posted : 23 July 2018 13:21:08(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Kate

I don't see how a T-shirt can possibly be better for sun protection than a long-sleeved top (which is what is to my knowledge normally recommended).  What's the logic?  My arms certainly burn in hot sun if I don't cover them.

Also, 'panacea' means 'cure-all', with a panacea being a comprehensive solution - which as I think we agree, sun-cream isn't.

Edited by user 23 July 2018 13:23:51(UTC)  | Reason: Added parenthetical comment

shecar  
#13 Posted : 23 July 2018 13:34:20(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
shecar

Originally Posted by: Kate Go to Quoted Post

and wonder if the objection is more about disgust than worker protection.

'Disgust' would be unworthy of anyone in this position - it was the lack of protection from materials/cement dust/fuel and the sun - perhaps my attempt at light humour, (re bellies), was lost in translation. 

We are all aware that a lot of the findings on sites are down to our own interpretation of circumstances and quite frankly if 5 Inspectors arrived on the same site, we would have 5 differing reports!

I was merely using the forum for, what I supposed was, it's intended use.

As it turns out the PC has reworded the site rules for all eventualities! 

Kate  
#14 Posted : 23 July 2018 14:13:29(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Kate

I wasn't accusing - just wondering!  I've certainly been in the position of giving short shrift to people reporting actual or assumed dress code violations to me as if they were H&S issues when they in fact weren't.  People have even complained to me about myself because I have taken my shoes off (obviously not on a construction site) to dry them out after heavy rain (the other day I was reminiscing with someone about how it used to rain).

Anyway now I am going to cover up my arms and put on a hat and venture outside as it is after 3 pm ...

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shecar on 23/07/2018(UTC)
Hsquared14  
#15 Posted : 23 July 2018 15:01:01(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Hsquared14

I know what you mean - I left my office once and did the classic - put my outdoor coat on over my hi-vis.  You would have thought I'd murdered someone!! 

If this sort of summer starts to become the norm I think everyone will have to take skin cancer a lot more seriously.  In Aus there are skin cancer treatment clinics litterally on every corner and they have long waiting lists which is scary.  My family are all fair skinned so my nephew's wife was like a Rottewiler and made sure none of us got sunburn. 

(on  a personal note - I don't like to see loads of bare flesh on display at work especially where there are risks like cement dust etc to contend with quite apart from the obvious aesthetics!!)

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shecar on 23/07/2018(UTC)
Steve e ashton  
#16 Posted : 24 July 2018 11:43:04(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Steve e ashton

The topic of sun burn / skin cancer was discussed at great length on this forum way back in August 2010.  At that time (so bear in mind some of this info is probably out of date and likely to UNDER estimate some of the numbers...) I posted the following:  "Over the last thirty years, the incidence of malignant melanoma has increased more than for any other common cancer in the UK The age-standardised mortality rates in the UK show a continuous rise for men from around 1.2 per 100,000 in the early 1970s to 3.1 in 2008. Compare this to last years HSE Stats showing a fatal accident incidence of 0.6 per 100,000 workers… The risk from skin cancer is FIVE TIMES the risks you are trying to manage… Or, to look at it another way (and using figures available in a slightly tongue-in-cheek way)… In 2007 there were 491 deaths in the UK from Non-Melanoma Skin Cancer. In 2008 there were 2,067 deaths from malignant melanoma. In 2008/9 there were 160 deaths from fatal occupational accidents. So the risk of death from skin cancer is very nearly sixteen times the risk of death from moving plant, moving trains, working at height, electrocution and the ‘other’ accident scenarios many seem to consider as exclusively worth our time and effort.. Almost a third (30%) of all cases occur in people aged less than 50 years and in the age-group 15-34 malignant melanoma is the most common cancer (when NMSCs are excluded). This is an unusually young age distribution for an adult cancer and emphasises the importance of its prevention and early treatment to avert the potential loss of many years of life. On average, about 20 years of life are lost for each melanoma death. “The main preventable cause is known but translating this knowledge into changes in behaviour is not easy. Surveys in the UK have revealed that the majority of people regard a sun tan as a sign of health and few are knowledgeable about the dangers of UVR” It may be outside your comfort zone but you really should not dismiss this issue so lightly! Steve"

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shecar on 25/07/2018(UTC)
Hsquared14  
#17 Posted : 24 July 2018 12:52:47(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Hsquared14

Steve - those statistics are scary - 3 members of my immediate family have had skin cancers and two of them had multiple instances.  I avoid exposure to the sun and I marvel at people who are happy to lie in it all day.  In the 1980s before the risks of sunbeds were publicised I was advised to use sunbeds regularly for a medical condition.  So I feel like I am on borrowed time!!

A Kurdziel  
#18 Posted : 25 July 2018 09:14:13(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
A Kurdziel

It depends on the T-shirt.  Some are good at stopping UV but the lighter ones, with a more open weave offer far less protection.

The only solution is to offer to rub SPF 50 tanning products on everybody’s beer belly. (Or offer then gym memberships?)   

shecar  
#19 Posted : 25 July 2018 10:39:17(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
shecar

Originally Posted by: A Kurdziel Go to Quoted Post

The only solution is to offer to rub SPF 50 tanning products on everybody’s beer belly. (Or offer then gym memberships?)   

So would it be improper of me to suggest Gym Memberships for this year and offer a sun cream application service for next year? :) :) :) 

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A Kurdziel on 25/07/2018(UTC)
RayRapp  
#20 Posted : 26 July 2018 10:30:44(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
RayRapp

I play golf 3/4 times a week wearing shorts and a short sleeved polo shirt as do most of the members of my golf club and other nearby clubs. Strange though it may seem, we have had no reports of anyone collapsing, getting sun-stroke, or skin cancer. I guess it might be something to do with copious amounts of water, sun cream and being grown up people who understand how to manage the risks.

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nic168 on 26/07/2018(UTC)
A Kurdziel  
#21 Posted : 26 July 2018 11:56:17(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
A Kurdziel

Originally Posted by: RayRapp Go to Quoted Post

I play golf 3/4 times a week wearing shorts and a short sleeved polo shirt as do most of the members of my golf club and other nearby clubs. Strange though it may seem, we have had no reports of anyone collapsing, getting sun-stroke, or skin cancer. I guess it might be something to do with copious amounts of water, sun cream and being grown up people who understand how to manage the risks.

Come on Ray you know that 1) you are not a golf pro but someone doing something out of work in their own time and so quite correctly it is solely your own responsibility as oppose to someone doing something at work b) I don’t’ have the figures to hand but I’d put money on some scientific papers existing[1] suggesting that people who play golf regularly have a higher incidence of skin cancer that those of us who prefer to fester indoors. Ok a quick look identified about  7 papers to start with.


[1] Downs N, Parisi A, Schouten P-Basal and squamous cell carcinoma risks for golfers: an assessment of the influence of tee time for latitudes in the Northern and Southern hemispheres. J Photochem Photobiol B 2011; 105:98–105.

Downs NJ, Schouten PW, Parisi AV, et al-Measurements of the upper body ultraviolet exposure to golfers: non-melanoma skin cancer risk, and the potential benefits of exposure to sunlight. Photodermatol Photoimmunol Photomed 2009; 25:317–24.

Gurrea Ysasi G, Moreno JC, Serrano MA-Ultraviolet erythematic radiation dose received by golfers in winter, in Valencia. Photochem Photobiol 2014; 90:1170–3.

Sung H, Slocum AC-UV radiation exposure to body sites of golfers and effects of clothing. Fam Consum Sci Res J 2006; 34:386–400.

Sung H-Golfers’ UV exposure, health beliefs and practices, and intention to adopt UV protective clothing. Ann Arbor: Michigan State University, 2003. Google Scholar105.

Hanke CW, Zollinger TW, O'Brian JJ, et al- Skin cancer in professional and amateur female golfers. Phys Sportsmed 1985; 13:51–68.

Shuliak-Wills L, Navarro K- A community intervention plan to prevent skin cancer in male golfers. Can Oncol Nurs J 2000; 10:109–11. PubMedGoogle Scholar

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Steve e ashton on 26/07/2018(UTC)
RayRapp  
#22 Posted : 26 July 2018 14:13:35(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
RayRapp

AK, I do accept that as an avid golfer I do get more vitamin D than most, probably healthier and possibly live longer than most.

My post was prompted in part by reading an article today in the DM about the Met Office weather warning and wrapping people up in cotton wool. I guess if you are that way inclined you're not going to see it differently.

   

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