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Mersey  
#1 Posted : 15 August 2018 09:16:08(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Mersey

I have been on some intensive recognised fire training courses and I am a memeber of the Institute of fire safety managers but I don't mind saying that I still get confused over travel distances.

As far as I'm aware the max travel distance in a low risk premises is 60m (the wording actually says suggested travel distances) however I was at a warehouse yesterday and measured 75m to the exit in a worse case scenario.

So whats the outcome? The buidling has multiple fire exits and the previous person who done the fire risk assessment (a recognised fire risk assessor) didn't mention anything about the travel distance exceeding 60m.

Mitigating factors that the building is not a sleeping residence / has evacuation procedures / has a top spec automatic fire detection system / regular fire drills / daily safety tours / evidence of emergency light testing / hazard reporting / fire door checks etc....

So do all the mitigating factors mean that 75m is ok? I am a bit of a black and white person if it says 60 then 61 is too much.

Ian Bell2  
#2 Posted : 15 August 2018 09:45:29(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Ian Bell2

No copy immediatley available - what does BS9999 say? Something similar I would guess regarding 60m.

Being realistic there has to be an ultimate cut off limit where you say additional fire exits are required due to excessive travel distances.

I would assume the warehouse is a fairly new build and passed building control/planning permission - so you always have that support.

I'm not aware of any tolerances officially permitted in the variation of travel distances to fire exits.

BS9999 as you are no doubt aware seeks to develop a risk profile for a type of building A1, A2 etc.

Personally when reviewing/developing designs I have my own rules of thumb.

For high risk buildings - no more than 10% extension of the maximum allowed travel distance.

For lower risk buildings 20-25%

pl53  
#3 Posted : 15 August 2018 11:52:58(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
pl53

The guidance issued by Department for Communities and Local Government specifically states that the travel distances quoted are for guidance only and goes on to say 

"for instance, some warehouse buildings that were designed with fire-engineered solutions may have extended travel distances."

So it  really is a subjective matter, not something that should be approached in with a black and white mindset. Basically like any risk asessment you need to consider what is already in place before making a judgement

Messey  
#4 Posted : 15 August 2018 17:34:49(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Messey

OK, you must have due regard to best practice (British standards and Govt Guides etc), but risk assessing is not just applying guides, its about holistically measuring risk and applying appropriate control measures. It is not black and white and hasnt been since the FP Act went in 2006.

Sprinklers, high ceilings, smoke control systems (as part of an engineered system) can all influence travel distances, as can automatic fire detection coverage that is in excess of the norm. BS9999 can help understand this.

Then the use of the warehouse and the nature of material being stored and how it is being stored will all add to the speed of the fire growth.

Let's not forget the occupancy:- 10 fit adults in a distrbution warehouse will move quicker than 10 kids (and 5 parents) in a soft play warehouse/centre

So adding 10m to a 60m guide on travel distance. What is the risk? Is it a huge problem?

Assuming an average adult walks at 1.4m/s - (and might be expected to be walking a bit quicker in an evacuation) it would take that adult 7 seconds or less to travel that 1om distance (much less time than its taken you to read this post)

So be brave. If you can justify varying away from a norm, record a justification in the FRA document

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