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peter gotch  
#1 Posted : 08 November 2018 17:22:29(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
peter gotch

Hi All

A very long shot!!!! (and my googling skills are letting me down).

A very long time ago, Scottish Building Regulations or Standards required that any new build with the eaves of a roof more than a certain height (which I think was 14 or 15 feet) should have permanent safe means of access.

On a typical tenement building (built say 1880-1930) in one of the big cities this is typically via a hatch either from above a top flat's roofspace, or from the top of the common stairwell.

Requirement was removed I think during the deregulation era of the Thatcher Governments (I said it was "a very long time ago"!)

What I haven't been able to pin down was the legislation that put this requirement in place, with all my searches tending to go round in circles and end up with discussions about fire safety.

It's all about CDM - sometimes a bit of history adds to the message.

Anyone with a long memory out there?

Regards, Peter

Steve e ashton  
#2 Posted : 08 November 2018 18:52:11(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Steve e ashton

Peter... Not that long ago I think. Try the Scottish executive tech standards for compliance with the building standards (Scotland) regs 1990. I think you're looking for part P, reg 27.1(g), para P2. 8 is relevant and may be what you are looking for?... Here> https://www.google.co.uk...&cshid=1541702479192
peter gotch  
#3 Posted : 09 November 2018 12:55:02(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
peter gotch

Hi Steve

Sending you a PM, but...

Eagle eyed but I think that you have spotted when they realised the downside of deregulation and started putting the rules back in place, after deregulation perhaps 10 years earlier. Gives me a timeline to find out when between 1990 and 1999 the provisions of Part P were drafted (including as regard windows, other glazing and fragile components which are also of relevant interest to my initial investigations).

But having this document and timeline will help me look into the discussions that led to the current Standards and their rationale. That should in turn help to flag up the historical background and take me back towards what principles similar to those in CDM were put in place many decades earlier. 

All good stuff for my IOSH CPD!!

Steve e ashton  
#4 Posted : 09 November 2018 15:20:14(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Steve e ashton

OK Peter... Good luck with the search... I suspect that many documents earlier would not have been automatically stored in electronic form, so won't be found by Mr Google... . Not sure if the Scottish parliament still employ a librarian, but that might be your best chance... Let us know if you find what you're looking for?
peter gotch  
#5 Posted : 10 November 2018 12:15:02(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
peter gotch

Hi Steve

Thanks for your reply here and by PM.

I'll reply to your PM when I have stopped fuming that the site thought that I did not have access to the PM facility.

All despite the fact that I was still logged in when I got this message when pressing the Send button.

For the benefit of other readers, unless the Technical Standards to which Steve linked have been subsequently amended standard P2.8 does not apply to Purpose Group 1, "Dwellings".

peter gotch  
#6 Posted : 30 December 2018 14:37:13(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
peter gotch

Solved my riddle, at least to the extent that I needed to! Permanent provision for access onto most roofs over 4.5 m above ground required as far back as 1971 and probably before. 4.5 m was probably 15 feet in earlier legislation prior to the various regulations which came in to metricate requirements.

The Building Standards (Scotland) Regulations 1981

www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/1981/1596/contents/made

P7      Access to roofs

            Where in the case of any building-

(a)    the roof is a mansard roof and the flatter portion thereof is; or

(b)   the roof is a flat roof and is; or

(c)    the roof is neither a flat roof nor a mansard roof and the eaves are,

 

at a height of more than 4.5 metres above ground level at every part, the building shall be provided with suitable means for obtaining access to the roof and to any chimney stacks forming part of the building:

 

Providing that nothing in this regulation shall apply to buildings of occupancy sub-group A1 or A2 not exceeding two storeys in height.”

This regulation replaced identical wording in regulation F31 of The Building Standards (Scotland) Consolidation Regulations 1971. I’ve not traced the requirement further back.

The Building Standards (Scotland) Amendment Regulations 1986

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/1986/1278/contents/made

“32 – (1) Regulation P7 shall be deleted.”

So suddenly it was OK to design any building with a roof more than 4.5 m above ground without thinking about permanent means of access for maintenance etc.

Eventually this decision was reversed, but only in part.

Current standard in Scotland for most housing is set out in “Building Standards technical handbook 2017 : Domestic buildings”

https://www.gov.scot/publications/building-standards-2017-domestic/

Standard 4.8

Every building must be designed and constructed in such a way that:

a.      p….

b.      f….

c.       b….

d.      a safe and secure means of access is provided to a roof, and

e.        

Limitation:

Standard 4.8(d) does not apply to domestic buildings.

The equivalent handbook for non-domestic buildings exempts those with roofs not more than 4.5 m above the ground (i.e. retaining the old standard).

Not checked exactly when the deregulatory measure in 1986 was reversed, nor why anyone thought it logical to exclude domestic buildings (which exclude premises such as the sleeping accommodation in prisons and care homes)

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