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FionaHirst01  
#1 Posted : 13 November 2018 14:42:22(UTC)
Rank: New forum user
FionaHirst01

Hi

I am after some advice as pinpointing specifics if difficult. I have a worker that was in hospital this morning with a suspected TIA. The employee had a CAT scan and the results were negative although the hospital are treating his symptoms as though he has in fact had one. 

The employee has been discharged from hospital with medication and asked to return in 1 week for a repeat CT scan. 

The employee wants to return to work tomorrow!!

My problem is this, the employee is in charge of a company vehicle and also they will be lone working? I am aware that following a stroke or TIA a person is not permitted to drive but in this particular instance it isnt confirmed. 

I have spoken with the Stroke Association who werent any help really but did say that a TIA wouldnt show on a CT scan as the clot that causes the TIA would disperse usually within 24 hours. 

So, would you be happy for the person to return to work without a diagnosis? would you be happy to allow them to drive a company vehicle. 

Thanks in advance

Elfin Davy 09  
#2 Posted : 13 November 2018 14:57:59(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Elfin Davy 09

Well, there are a few "issues" here aren't they ?

Firstly, this is as much an HR issue as it is health and safety - get them involved (assuming you have an HR Dept ?).  If the person wants to return tomorrow, it should only be after a return to work interview considers them fit to do so.

Next, there's the subject of driving... I personally wouldn't want them driving a company vehicle OR working alone straight away if a TIA was suspected.  Is there anything else they can do within the business for a period of time while the dust settles ?  Just as an aside, if they return to work (even for a return to work interview), would they be driving ?

This is one of those cases where YOU have to control things.  It's commendable that the person wants to come straight back to work, but you have to be "comfortable" with them doing so.  Remember your duty of care (and how it might look to others if you allowed the person to get straight back in a car or to work alone, and they took ill again). 

So far as driving and lone working go, I would at least wait until next weeks scan and review things from there. 

Sometimes you have to be cruel to be kind I think (even if you upset the person concerned).

chris.packham  
#3 Posted : 13 November 2018 15:14:57(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
chris.packham

As someone who has experienced what was diagnosed as a possible TIA, albeit very mild, perhaps I may comment.

Firstly, it is true that a TIA may not show on the scan. It did not in my case, but the specialist considered the evidence sufficient to warrant a diagnosis of a TIA. In any event his advice was that I should not drive for a month, even though I had not suffered any impairment in my consciousness, reactions, etc. The DVLC has a strict policy on this.

More importantly, imagine you let him drive, then there is an accident, not necessarily his fault. Should the insurance company find out about the TIA how do you think they would respond?

Following my TIA and at the end of the month I underwent a full eyesight test, including field of vision, etc. The insurance company was very happy and as a result not at all concerned about my starting to drive again.

Hope this is of some help. Any questions PM me or call on 01386 832 311

Chris

thanks 3 users thanked chris.packham for this useful post.
AL58 on 13/11/2018(UTC), nic168 on 13/11/2018(UTC), UncleFester on 14/11/2018(UTC)
AL58  
#4 Posted : 13 November 2018 15:59:43(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
AL58

I suffered a TIA a couple of years ago & was worried about driving as all the advice pointed towards taking one month out from driving as a TIA could lead onto a full blown stroke . I was in the same boat for a month or 2 where they would not confirm or deny that is what I had had.

I did return to work the very next day after my episode & my employer was very good in keeping things pretty stress free for me . From an employers point of view you have a duty of care so I would say you would be within your rights to refuse.Also I'm not sure but what would your insurance company say on the subject But I think  also it would just be common sense really untill you are sure they are O.K. 

Maybe some work on site could be found untill they able to go back to driving

There does seem to be some confusion on the driving front as I said all the advice points towards a month not driving however I  asked my GP about the driving thing & she was happy for me to continue ..

Going forward for your employee Although nothing was confirmed by Scan in my case I have been medicated with blood thinners Stattins etc to prevent a reoccurrance . But I do find when  I am stressed I do find it hard to keep my thoughts straight or maybe its just old age catching up with me .

Messey  
#5 Posted : 13 November 2018 23:02:16(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Messey

With respect to the OP, why is this a question?

Its your business, it's your risk assessment and if you are not happy with the outcomes of that risk assessment , then apply some temporary control measures.  I think its entirely reasonable for this employee to be on restricted duties for a short period and certainly not driving. They may not like it, but never mind

I had a TIA 12/13 years ago - luckily with no significant lasting side effects. But I do recall going into complete denial state at the time. I knew I was potentially very ill - or what I was facing could potentially lead to a  stroke, but I refused to accept it for a while. I only went to A+E to avoid further harm from my wife!!!!

So question any verbal findings

Mark-W  
#6 Posted : 14 November 2018 08:25:22(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Mark-W

Like others here, I had a TIA 3 yrs ago. Informed not to drive for 6 weeks. Trouble I had, I started a new job 3 days later. So I wnet to work, informed them and they were fine. But I lasted 1 1/2 days before I keeled over with exhaustion. So I then rested for a day or 2 and then cracked straight back into it.

In my casre going to work so soon was the wrong decision to make. But as others have said I was in denial. I didn't tell family or friends about it for weeks. I felt as though having a TIA was a sign of weakness. Once I'd mangaed to get it into my head that it wasn't, I was sort of OK about talking about it

stevedm  
#7 Posted : 14 November 2018 19:19:43(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
stevedm

It would be well advised that those who have had or have a suspected TIA refrain from driving for a period of at least 1 month, no need to inform DVLA....it is in the persons best interest (commented based on DVLA medical guidance P30)... although for the use of medical professionals....

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/736938/assessing-fitness-to-drive-a-guide-for-medical-professionals.pdf

nic168  
#8 Posted : 16 November 2018 14:40:13(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
nic168

 the denial aspect is quite interesting- I know two people who have exprienced TIA and not informed family or friensds until several weeks after the event.  I am wondering how common this is and if it applies to other physical conditions.

johnmurray  
#9 Posted : 18 November 2018 14:26:32(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
johnmurray

Ask the DVLA:https://www.gov.uk/transient-ischaemic-attacks-and-driving
Mark-W  
#10 Posted : 22 November 2018 08:38:18(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Mark-W

Originally Posted by: nic168 Go to Quoted Post

 the denial aspect is quite interesting- I know two people who have exprienced TIA and not informed family or friensds until several weeks after the event.  I am wondering how common this is and if it applies to other physical conditions.

Nic

For me being Ex Forces and invincible, or so I thought. Having a TIA and losing control was very frightening and I really thought it was a sign of weakness so only my wife and the company I worked for knew about it. I let it slip by accident in conversation to a friend about 3-4 weeks later.

It was agfter chatting to them that it dawned on me that it wasn't a weakness but a sign that I was doing things beyond my ability. I was no longer the carefree soldier who was impervious to all. I was not a 40+ yr old bloke with limitations. It took the TIA to make me realise this

Stuart Smiles  
#11 Posted : 20 December 2018 22:23:24(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Stuart Smiles

ask for a copy of the letter. there are different levels, and you need to understand that the fear of no driving could mean that it may be a case of it being underplayed, as well as it just being as it as being presented. 

they also need to be very careful with dvla, as in some cases it could be 6 months, it could be 1 month, could be less, getting to a sensible person within dvla could be a longer process too. 

if they have use of commercial vehicles/licence, then dvla will be very cagey about giving licence back if at all. so again, care needs to be used in the presentation of complete, accurate information, and engage/discuss with an occupational health person if you have one, if not, look at one on the occupational health providers register. i had a discussion with hse and she suggested a particulat provider as having competency with the issue we were looking at. also see if you can speak to someone at the hospital to see if they work with any ones or have had contact with them. 

also think you need to look at occupational health systems and controls, as the person may be put on a monitoring, diet and other controls, so they could be an opportunity to showcase a life changing "health" wellbeing case study, don't waste a crisis and all that... 

johnmurray  
#12 Posted : 21 December 2018 08:02:52(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
johnmurray

Mark-W  
#13 Posted : 21 December 2018 08:53:24(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Mark-W

Had a quick look at the link you provided and this bit tickled me. 

You don’t need to tell DVLA if you had a TIA and have recovered.

Who defines recovered? What does recovered mean? I still have short term memory issues every now and again so am I recovered or still suffering from symptoms?

All very subjective.

johnmurray  
#14 Posted : 22 December 2018 19:19:07(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
johnmurray

Different people,different recovery, some never recover.

Look at atrial fibrillation....some have to report, some don't.

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