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ncann88  
#1 Posted : 07 December 2018 20:48:28(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
ncann88

Evening all, I have recently taken over a voluntary roll within a large well know youth organisation. This roll involves the running of an accomodation facility for young people. I've asked about their current fire safety policy and risk assessment, there are more words on a fag packet! I've suggested getting in a fire consultant to carry out s full fire risk assessment and write a fire safety policy for the site. Someone involved thinks we would be better off calling in the fire service and that they know someone who would be 'sympathetic' to the csuse. Am I right in thinking that a fire officer would have a duty to issue a prohibition or improvement notice regardless of sympatheticness? To give you some idea it's sleeping accomodation for around 40 peoppe, one fire exit locked with a break glass key box next to it, no emergency lighting, no inspection routine for anything apart from the 6monthly and yearly inspections. Any thaughts much appreciated. Thanks Nick
SNS  
#2 Posted : 07 December 2018 22:44:34(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
SNS

Depends who in the local brigade your colleague is thinking of inviting in. Not all fire fighters are fire safety trained, sounds strange but it is a sub-specialisation after being a firefighter.

If the brigade are invited in they are more likely to be constructive than if they arrive 'on spec', but nowadays don't give advice on how to achieve improvements, just identify that improvements are needed.

A decent FRA won't cost too much, shop around and seek local recommendations. Roughly where in the country are you located - don't need to be exact :)

If that is the state of the fire safety what is the rest of the site like for maintenance, other checks such as gas safety, electric wiring, legionella etc etc?

Good luck in your role.

thanks 2 users thanked SNS for this useful post.
A Kurdziel on 10/12/2018(UTC), ncann88 on 11/12/2018(UTC)
Messey  
#3 Posted : 08 December 2018 09:42:44(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Messey

There is a clear difference in the responsibilities between a consultant and a local authority fire officer.

The business (or in England & Wales, the Responsible Person) has a duty to carry out a fire risk assessment and act on the findings. Furthermore the FRA must be kept up to date. The Resp person may elect to get a consultant in to complie the FRA on thier behalf

The local authority fire service are the enforcement authority for most premises. They will not compile your FRA or give you significant or specific advice in relation of how to manage fire safety in your premises. Serving or former fire officers may have the skills and knowledge to assist, but ensure be very careful. For example, many fire authorities do not permit their staff carrying out fire safety work.

In your case there is no question in my mind that you need professional help and urgently! The risk is high. From accomodating 40 young (thereby vulnerable) people to the fact its sleeping risk to a locked exit with a key in a box, it sounds like a very serious situation.

Fire authorities rarely issue prohibition notices which can prevent all or part of the premises being used, but that option is available and may be used in an environment such as this. 

I strongly urge you to appoint a suitably qualifed consultant as a matter of urgency. DO NOT invite the fire service in. I was a fire safety inspecting officer and would attend premises upon request of the occupier. Working in central London, many request related to mutual escape routes through adjacent premises where the other occupier had blocked to exit. Sadly, I often used to have to put restrictions on the premises who had asked for help. That wouldnt go down too well, but with no escape route, there was no other option.

So please get a consultant in - and rapidly - plus save all of your communications with your bosses. Voluntary or not, you may also have responsibilities so keep an audit trail for your peace of mind

thanks 5 users thanked Messey for this useful post.
SNS on 08/12/2018(UTC), PH2 on 09/12/2018(UTC), A Kurdziel on 10/12/2018(UTC), ncann88 on 11/12/2018(UTC), toe on 11/12/2018(UTC)
Elfin Davy 09  
#4 Posted : 10 December 2018 10:42:38(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Elfin Davy 09

Messey has given excellent advice above (especially regarding your own position), and I would strongly suggest that a) you stick to your guns and bring in an expert and b) that the last thing you should do is invite in the local Fire Service guy (even if they are deemed "tame") because it's asking for trouble in the scenario you describe...

thanks 1 user thanked Elfin Davy 09 for this useful post.
ncann88 on 11/12/2018(UTC)
Clark34486  
#5 Posted : 10 December 2018 10:54:24(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Clark34486

I've used a Primary Authority (Royal Berks FB) for consultation matters, it's a brilliant initiative.

A fire consultant doesn't issue Pohibition/ improvement notices as they are not a regulatory body. There is also a vast difference between a fire risk consultant and a fire engineer, I think the first port-of-call in this specific scenario would be a fire consultant to carry out an FRA and to help establish a policy document. This will include; emergency arrangements, compliance log books, a FRA etc.

thanks 1 user thanked Clark34486 for this useful post.
ncann88 on 11/12/2018(UTC)
ncann88  
#6 Posted : 11 December 2018 11:34:08(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
ncann88

Thanks everyone! 

You've confirmed my opinion, I think I'm getting there with them, its basically one person who has a different opinion to me, everyone else is onboard so hopefully majority rules! Pointing out they were all culpable helped a lot. One actually phoned me (unheard of) to express his concerns! 

I have a guy I've used for work who is excellent. I don't think it is appreciated how much work would go into this. Been quoted £500 for the whole thing, which I think is a perfectly reasonable price particulalry as I know his work and how much effort he will put into it. 

Thanks again 

Nick 

Mark-W  
#7 Posted : 11 December 2018 12:26:49(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Mark-W

Thge charity I work for has a shop but it's rear fire exit is via a basement of another shop. Both shops are in different streets but back onto each other. A strange set up I know but both shops are owned by the same person.

Environmental Health had cause to attend the other shop along with the local fire safetry manager from the Fire Brigade. During their visit they decided to pop into our shop and discuss the issues with the other shop. It's a food shop but they were selling live fish from the basement and had a person living there to look after the fish from what we can gather.

Anyway, it highlighted a few areas where we were deficient and not quite compliant. I put forward a plan to change a few things and decided to call the fire safety officer to confirm he would be happy with my ideas. He decided to come back for a dedicated visit and discuss my ideas. He offered a solution that would achieve the same end result but with very little cost. 

I wouldn't say he was a tame fire safety officer but he was ceertainly helpful and open to my interpretation of BS9999

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