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mootoppers  
#1 Posted : 12 December 2018 18:10:07(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
mootoppers

Dear all,

I'm having a brain spasm about this and I suspect that I'm just being particularly daft - please can you clarify for me.

We have an employee who tripped over the legs of the table he was carrying and fell awkwardly. He has fractured a rib and hurt his shoulder and has been signed off for several weeks. I am assuming that RIDDOR reportable, BUT I don't believe that there was anything in our arrangements or equipment that resulted in the fall. It was a pure accident. It did happen at work and he was handling equipment at the time. Reportable or not? 

Roundtuit  
#2 Posted : 12 December 2018 19:46:34(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Roundtuit

Are they employed as furniture movers or just shifting the office around?

If professional "shifters" I would be surprised to find a single person moving a desk - manual handling etc. - so RA & procedures to control risk would control this work related activity.

Even the rank amature should have had a plan rather than "macho me" - the gap in your systems is a lack of supervision i.e. a management failure to consider potential risks from the proposed activity and put in place mitigation controls e.g. getting someone else to help.

It wasn't pure accident but an incident waiting to happen.

We can argue to the cows come home about someone conducting an activity outwith their contractual obligation (work related or not) - report it and accept the consequence

In the old days moving office furniture was "someone elses" job - in these lean times have the right peple been given manual handling training/awareness - having come from a heavily unionised background I used to laugh at the thought of an office receptionist being on manual handling training (isn't the heaviest thing they lift an archive box?) to realising that when the MD decided to "refresh" the office everybody and anybody could become involved.

Edited by user 12 December 2018 20:09:23(UTC)  | Reason: perspective

thanks 2 users thanked Roundtuit for this useful post.
A Kurdziel on 13/12/2018(UTC), A Kurdziel on 13/12/2018(UTC)
Roundtuit  
#3 Posted : 12 December 2018 19:46:34(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Roundtuit

Are they employed as furniture movers or just shifting the office around?

If professional "shifters" I would be surprised to find a single person moving a desk - manual handling etc. - so RA & procedures to control risk would control this work related activity.

Even the rank amature should have had a plan rather than "macho me" - the gap in your systems is a lack of supervision i.e. a management failure to consider potential risks from the proposed activity and put in place mitigation controls e.g. getting someone else to help.

It wasn't pure accident but an incident waiting to happen.

We can argue to the cows come home about someone conducting an activity outwith their contractual obligation (work related or not) - report it and accept the consequence

In the old days moving office furniture was "someone elses" job - in these lean times have the right peple been given manual handling training/awareness - having come from a heavily unionised background I used to laugh at the thought of an office receptionist being on manual handling training (isn't the heaviest thing they lift an archive box?) to realising that when the MD decided to "refresh" the office everybody and anybody could become involved.

Edited by user 12 December 2018 20:09:23(UTC)  | Reason: perspective

thanks 2 users thanked Roundtuit for this useful post.
A Kurdziel on 13/12/2018(UTC), A Kurdziel on 13/12/2018(UTC)
SNS  
#4 Posted : 12 December 2018 22:36:10(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
SNS

Reportable because of the broken bone other than fingers and toes. 

From the HSE page:  

Fractures, other than to fingers, thumbs and toes

Bone fractures include a break, crack or chip. They are reportable when diagnosed or confirmed by a doctor, including when they are specified on a GP ‘fit note’. In some cases, there may be no definitive evidence of a fracture (eg if an X-ray is not taken), but the injury will still be reportable if a doctor considers it is likely that there is a fracture. Self-diagnosed ‘suspected fractures’ are not reportable.

As roundtuit has implied, check the RA and Work Instruction / SWP and review in the light of the incident.

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A Kurdziel on 13/12/2018(UTC)
A Kurdziel  
#5 Posted : 13 December 2018 09:17:32(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
A Kurdziel

No such a thing as a "pure" accident. Ultimately is is always down to some sort of management failure 

Kate  
#6 Posted : 13 December 2018 13:05:13(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Kate

Not sure what a "pure" accident is.  But it's clearly meant to refer to an accident of some kind.

RIDDOR exists for the reporting of injuries resulting from accidents (among other things) so it being considerd an accident can't possibly stop it being reportable.  It is part of what qualifies it to be reportable.

And RIDDOR is not based on fault so far as injuries to employees are concerned.

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A Kurdziel on 14/12/2018(UTC)
Xavier123  
#7 Posted : 13 December 2018 13:18:37(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Xavier123

It is possible to have 'unavoidable' work-related accidents. ;)

Presumably your investigation has revealed that there was no different way to carry this table or do this task and thus is leading you to the fact there was no contribution by the means the work was carried out. 

But the first test by HSE definition is: Did the work activity contribute to the accident? 

RIDDOR is not about blame or liability .... so perhaps this question helps...Would they have tripped were they not undertaking the work activity?

nic168  
#8 Posted : 14 December 2018 09:48:15(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
nic168

 Andy-Sometimes accidents happen without it being the management fault-

I have known people shut their own fingers in a drawer  and one one occasion a woman fainted and hit her head on filing cabinet after a collegue got a paper cut.

A Kurdziel  
#9 Posted : 14 December 2018 10:54:02(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
A Kurdziel

Originally Posted by: nic168 Go to Quoted Post

 Andy-Sometimes accidents happen without it being the management fault-

I have known people shut their own fingers in a drawer  and one one occasion a woman fainted and hit her head on filing cabinet after a collegue got a paper cut.

Well obviously the first person had not been given sufficient training in the use of filing cabinets, with suitable annual refreshers.

In the second case, as the risk from paper cuts is well known it should be made  clear in the job description that only those candidates who do not suffer from  haemophobia are to be considered.

They should also be able to faint gracefully.

Merry  Christmas

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Kate on 14/12/2018(UTC)
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