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pseudonym  
#1 Posted : 06 February 2019 09:48:42(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
pseudonym

Perhaps some of the Fire Safety types out there can help?

For the time being, I'm employed as a temporary, agency employee as an interim H&S Manager - am  really the right person to be named as the "responsible person" in any Fire Risk Assessments?

Thanks for any assistance on this matter

Best regards

P.

Woolf13  
#2 Posted : 06 February 2019 12:45:10(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Woolf13

The answer in short is no. You are not the "responsible person" see below extract from the Regulatory Reform (Fire Safety) Order 2005:

Meaning of “responsible person”

3.  In this Order “responsible person” means—

(a)in relation to a workplace, the employer, if the workplace is to any extent under his control;

(b)in relation to any premises not falling within paragraph (a)—

(i)the person who has control of the premises (as occupier or otherwise) in connection with the carrying on by him of a trade, business or other undertaking (for profit or not); or

(ii)the owner, where the person in control of the premises does not have control in connection with the carrying on by that person of a trade, business or other undertaking.

You are under the regulations:

Safety assistance

18.—(1) The responsible person must, subject to paragraphs (6) and (7), appoint one or more competent persons to assist him in undertaking the preventive and protective measures.

I hope that helps.

thanks 2 users thanked Woolf13 for this useful post.
pseudonym on 06/02/2019(UTC), Dave5705 on 07/02/2019(UTC)
Hsquared14  
#3 Posted : 06 February 2019 13:45:53(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Hsquared14

Bearing in mind Woolf's definition I would say no because you are only there on a temporary basis, esssentially you are "helping out" whoever is the responsible person for the site.  The responsible person is basically the most senior person on site who delegates certain duties to other people. That is the position you are in.

Mersey  
#4 Posted : 06 February 2019 13:53:39(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Mersey

Originally Posted by: Hsquared14 Go to Quoted Post

Bearing in mind Woolf's definition I would say no because you are only there on a temporary basis, esssentially you are "helping out" whoever is the responsible person for the site.  The responsible person is basically the most senior person on site who delegates certain duties to other people. That is the position you are in.


I 100% with the above I'm a member of the IFSM its the top dog on the site show him this I'll happily put him / her right

thanks 3 users thanked Mersey for this useful post.
pseudonym on 06/02/2019(UTC), nic168 on 07/02/2019(UTC), David Thomas on 11/02/2019(UTC)
nic168  
#5 Posted : 07 February 2019 10:18:58(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
nic168

 Mersey, Hsquared- your posts has saved me some argument. I have put thsCheif executive down as Responsible Person on the FRA and there have been "concerns and objections" to the effcet that it should be me.  You have given me the words I need, almost worth renewing my membership ;)

Messey  
#6 Posted : 07 February 2019 15:59:59(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Messey

Its relatively straightforward in most premises as there is a heirachy 

1) If there is an employer, then he is the Responsible Person. This does not need to be a named person, but a corporation susvch as Ocado PLC

2) Where there is no employer - say a block of flats - it is the person with control of those premises. This could be a local authority, a landlord or managing agent 

3) If there is no person in control, its the owner of the premises

Beware of Article 5(4) which allows anyone with a responsibility for maintenance or safety to be treated as a Responsible Person insofar as their duties apply

So a Safety Officer or Fire Alarm Engineer could be prosecuted under 5(4) as the RP in some circumstances. At least one Fire Alarm Engineer & Fire Risk Assessor have been prosecuted nuder this Article.

Its worth noting that The London Fire Brigade considered prosecuting the  Branch Manager of the infamous New Look store in Oxford Street under Article 5(4), but the legal people said they had enough to prosecute so dropped that angle

Be very careful

So in answer to the OP, he could be considered as a Responsible Person under 5(4) but is not THE Responsible Person  which is the employer

David Thomas  
#7 Posted : 11 February 2019 13:23:39(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
David Thomas

How many safety managers are even competent to assist in fire safety matters..?

Edited by user 11 February 2019 13:24:24(UTC)  | Reason: Typo

Mr.Flibble2.0  
#8 Posted : 11 February 2019 15:33:56(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Mr.Flibble2.0

Originally Posted by: David Thomas Go to Quoted Post
How many safety managers are even competent to assist in fire safety matters..?

Define what competence would be required to assist in fire safety matters..

thanks 1 user thanked Mr.Flibble2.0 for this useful post.
David Thomas on 11/02/2019(UTC)
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