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ADALE  
#1 Posted : 17 February 2019 13:27:50(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
ADALE

Hi all, 

I'm considering a discussion on IMS' for QSHE. I remember the NEBOSH exam questions from yester-year and even revisted them for a reminder.

I've never operated, created etc. an IMS but don't envisage too much difficulty providing the elements are kept as simple as possible. I have operated separate systems and built component parts for other systems. 

My question to the forum would be: Can you provide practical examples of benefits or perhaps learning points from your own experience of IMS?

A friend of mine speaks highly of the them but only came across one good one for a previous employer and the resources alone to combine them, let alone software, team of document controllers and I.T. mgmt personnel make it sound pretty unrealistic for SME's unless great planning and delivery went into the scaling down of such a system.

Any thoughts welcome

*Begging the good people of this forum to not let this descend into an example of Cunningham's Law*

winter28828  
#2 Posted : 18 February 2019 07:07:52(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
winter28828

Hi, I can only speak from my own experiences, but I find an IMS slighter more time consuming to put in place, but once that is done, I found it easier to manage. The main advantages as I see them are it is simpler to audit if you do a process based audit then you can check items across all the systems in one go, if you intend to certify the systems against the ISO’s then it is simpler as they follow the same clause numbers, and you only need one document control system which should also keep any updates simpler to manage. Just remember where possible I kept mine simple. Hope it goes well James
A Kurdziel  
#3 Posted : 18 February 2019 09:15:25(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
A Kurdziel

What do you mean by “integrated”? Are you referring to integrating the way H&S is done in your organisation with management in general; H&S stops being an add on but becomes part and parcel what everybody does, H&S targets are part everybody’s KPI’s etc or are you just referring to a software package which links up things like incident reporting, auditing and your document control for risk assessments and the like? Or something else?

Waz  
#4 Posted : 18 February 2019 12:20:13(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Waz

IMSs are by definition an integration of a number of component systems e.g. QMS, EMS & OHSMS.  Developing the system and its functionality is relatively straight forward, it is now process driven (in specific terms of the QMS) and not procedure driven.

Indeed, we have a framework system, comprising of key elements that relate to other documentation (normally the mandatory stuff e.g. legal register, risk assessments, training matrix, scoping document.....  

Auditing is done holistically, quality throughout the process is managed effectively without procedures and utilisation of established process based diagrams (we have 'swimlanes'), which is effective for all elements.  I think its relatively easy as a practitioner, as as long as you can provide evidence, you have that key element for all auditors, when they say 'show me'.

Gerry Knowles  
#5 Posted : 19 February 2019 14:42:47(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Gerry Knowles

Over the years I and my business have put in place a number of IMS systems for a number of companys both large and small.  They can take a lot of effort to write and impliment but once done they can be managed without too much difficulty.  We always felt that the key was deciding what will be the platfom to write them around.  In the early days we always used PAS 99 which we found was ideal for the old 9001, 14001 and 18001 standards.  Now the new AnnexSL model works just as well across the three standards.  The key is as always being able to take an auditor (internal or external) to the evidence that you are complying with the system.  A final word of advice is keep it simple with as few procedures and other documents as possible. Remember the standards are now audited again the process and not the procedures.  

A Kurdziel  
#6 Posted : 20 February 2019 09:57:22(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
A Kurdziel

It seems that people have decided that the main practical benefit of an IMS is that it gets you through the auditing process. Is that it?

Roundtuit  
#7 Posted : 21 February 2019 21:11:25(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Roundtuit

No IMS saves duplicated effort in procedures and more realistically reflects actual business practice e.g. there is one order activity, there is one supplier verification activity, there is one management (review) meeting which considers... No business changes its practices to suit different certifications so why expend effort writing three supplier assessment procedures when the business only actually operates one? Better still other certification schemes operate similar clauses so one procedure can be referenced across many. I had one IMS that covered five systems by identifying in a header the relevant clause under each distinct system
thanks 2 users thanked Roundtuit for this useful post.
A Kurdziel on 22/02/2019(UTC), A Kurdziel on 22/02/2019(UTC)
Roundtuit  
#8 Posted : 21 February 2019 21:11:25(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Roundtuit

No IMS saves duplicated effort in procedures and more realistically reflects actual business practice e.g. there is one order activity, there is one supplier verification activity, there is one management (review) meeting which considers... No business changes its practices to suit different certifications so why expend effort writing three supplier assessment procedures when the business only actually operates one? Better still other certification schemes operate similar clauses so one procedure can be referenced across many. I had one IMS that covered five systems by identifying in a header the relevant clause under each distinct system
thanks 2 users thanked Roundtuit for this useful post.
A Kurdziel on 22/02/2019(UTC), A Kurdziel on 22/02/2019(UTC)
A Kurdziel  
#9 Posted : 22 February 2019 10:38:18(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
A Kurdziel

Ah ha! By interrogated you take it to mean that you bring all the systems together ISO 9001, ISO 45001 and ISO 14001 etc together. That of course makes sense… but it was not obvious from the original post.   Perhaps IOSH should have a set of set phrases and acronyms with exactly specific meanings clearly defined.  You could of course arrange the software so that if they are misused you are immediately struck down by a bolt of lightning from the IOSH gods.

Maroc  
#10 Posted : 22 February 2019 11:27:25(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Maroc

Hi, BSI supports and promotes 'PAS 99 Integrated Management Systems' as a framework for integrating your management systems (I have looked at it but have not used it).  

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