Welcome Guest! The IOSH forums are a free resource to both members and non-members. Login or register to use them

Postings made by forum users are personal opinions. IOSH is not responsible for the content or accuracy of any of the information contained in forum postings. Please carefully consider any advice you receive.

Notification

Icon
Error

Options
Go to last post Go to first unread
sjh1973  
#1 Posted : 24 June 2019 14:35:19(UTC)
Rank: New forum user
sjh1973

After an accident at a local village hall, where the IP was attending a function there, they tripped and fell and had to be taken to hospital for treatment. As this is not a place of work, does it need RIDDOR reporting?

All i can find is conflicting information, which is leading me to think it does need reporting. 

All advice appreciated. 

Ian Bell2  
#2 Posted : 24 June 2019 15:02:07(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Ian Bell2

No, not if the aqccident wasn't related to work

thanks 1 user thanked Ian Bell2 for this useful post.
sjh1973 on 25/06/2019(UTC)
Ian A-H  
#3 Posted : 24 June 2019 17:26:05(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Ian  A-H

First question would be: is there an employer? Does the "owner" or committee or trustees employ staff? Even if they just pay a cleaner for a couple of hours a week then the full gamut of H&S regulations apply, including RIDDOR.

But the second question, as Ian said: was the incident work related, ie was there a defect or act or omission that caused the IP to trip? If not, no RIDDOR.

Edited by user 24 June 2019 17:26:43(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

thanks 2 users thanked Ian A-H for this useful post.
sjh1973 on 25/06/2019(UTC), SJP on 25/06/2019(UTC)
sjh1973  
#4 Posted : 25 June 2019 07:44:21(UTC)
Rank: New forum user
sjh1973

Originally Posted by: Ian A-H Go to Quoted Post

First question would be: is there an employer? Does the "owner" or committee or trustees employ staff? Even if they just pay a cleaner for a couple of hours a week then the full gamut of H&S regulations apply, including RIDDOR.

But the second question, as Ian said: was the incident work related, ie was there a defect or act or omission that caused the IP to trip? If not, no RIDDOR.

The committe does employ a caretaker who runs the building, there was also a defect - the IP tripped on a nail sticking up from the wooded floor, so im guessing yes to RIDDOR?
Pembo55  
#5 Posted : 25 June 2019 07:52:46(UTC)
Rank: New forum user
Pembo55

RIDDOR For me as the below.

Non fatal accidents to non-workers (eg members of the public)

Accidents to members of the public or others who are not at work must be reported if they result in an injury and the person is taken directly from the scene of the accident to hospital for treatment to that injury. Examinations and diagnostic tests do not constitute ‘treatment’ in such circumstances.

There is no need to report incidents where people are taken to hospital purely as a precaution when no injury is apparent.

Ian Bell2  
#6 Posted : 25 June 2019 09:04:47(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Ian Bell2

Not RIDDOR. Original post says no work activity.

This seems similar to the example on the HSE RIDDOR webpages.

Q. A person fainted and as a precaution they were taken to hospital. Is this reportable?

A. No. You are only required to report injuries resulting from a work-related accident. This is not usually the case where people have been taken ill. Also, precautionary hospital attendance is different from attending hospital for treatment to an injury.

DHeptinstall  
#7 Posted : 25 June 2019 09:46:48(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
DHeptinstall

When previously making RIDDOR reports regarding members of the public/other non-employees, I have been advised by the HSE that you need to report if the injury is due to a deficiency of equipment (e.g. a faulty chair, broken furniture, obvious trip hazard such as raised paving slabs).

If the injury is not due to this (e.g. tripping over own feet, feinting due to lack of nourishment and going to hospital) it is not reportable.

thanks 1 user thanked DHeptinstall for this useful post.
sjh1973 on 25/06/2019(UTC)
CptBeaky  
#8 Posted : 25 June 2019 10:14:55(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
CptBeaky

This shows how confusing RIDDOR can be. I saw this as an open and shut case of reportable, my thinking is as such.

Is this a place of work? Yes, they employ a careaker.

Did a defect cause the accident? Yes, they tripped on a nail

Was a member of public taken to hospital for treatment? Yes they were.

However others are saying it is not reportable. Personally I would be reporting this, I am sure you will just be another statistic inputted into the yearly figures. I very much doubt you will ever hear anything back from this. However, if in doubt, report. You can't get in trouble for over reporting, but (in theory) you could be in trouble for under reporting.

thanks 2 users thanked CptBeaky for this useful post.
DHeptinstall on 25/06/2019(UTC), sjh1973 on 25/06/2019(UTC)
jwk  
#9 Posted : 25 June 2019 11:33:28(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
jwk

I'm with Cpt Beaky on this. Work is involved by an act of omission; the nail was not removed, so in my book a member of the punlic was injured by an accident arising out of work and required hospital treatment. And before anybody says work was not involved, consider e.g Flixborough. It was a maintenance failure that caused Flixborough, nobody was actually working in the area when the pipe split, but that would certainly have been reportable under current rules (actually HSE would probably have heard the bang),

John

thanks 2 users thanked jwk for this useful post.
CptBeaky on 25/06/2019(UTC), sjh1973 on 25/06/2019(UTC)
Zyggy  
#10 Posted : 25 June 2019 13:54:32(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Zyggy

It's a RIDDOR notification for me! If you look at the HSE RIDDOR site under "Key Definitions" it states that an accident is "work-related" if any of the following played a significant role - & one of these criteria is " the condition of the site or premises where the accident happened". On top of that, the IP was taken to hospital & received treatment, so for non-employees all the boxes are ticked for reporting.
thanks 1 user thanked Zyggy for this useful post.
sjh1973 on 25/06/2019(UTC)
Ian Bell2  
#11 Posted : 25 June 2019 14:18:45(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Ian Bell2

So what was the function in the village hall? Stated to be non-work activity etc.

Personally I think don't RIDDOR was intended to capture low level slips & trips (if that is what happened) for people attending social functions in the local village hall.

thanks 3 users thanked Ian Bell2 for this useful post.
Evans38004 on 25/06/2019(UTC), Zyggy on 25/06/2019(UTC), SJP on 26/06/2019(UTC)
Zyggy  
#12 Posted : 25 June 2019 14:56:00(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Zyggy

Ian, I fully agree with you regarding the reasoning behind RIDDOR. Unfortunately, the enforcers expect these situations for non-employees to be reported. I have, in the past, investigated two fatalities to members of the public where no "work activity" was taking place. The first in a park bowling hut involving an elderly lady who tripped & fell striking her head on a counter & the other to a 9 year old child where a height restriction barrier on a housing estate struck her on the back of the head. Both resulted in Crown Court appearances & both RIDDOR reportable. The example of fainting used by the HSE is to try & explain that if there was no act or omission by the organisation, then nobody could have prevented it. I have stated this before on this Forum, but RIDDOR needs a total rethink.
thanks 1 user thanked Zyggy for this useful post.
SJP on 26/06/2019(UTC)
Users browsing this topic
Guest
You cannot post new topics in this forum.
You cannot reply to topics in this forum.
You cannot delete your posts in this forum.
You cannot edit your posts in this forum.
You cannot create polls in this forum.
You cannot vote in polls in this forum.