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stevedm  
#1 Posted : 05 July 2019 06:59:11(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
stevedm

I have come across a situation where a new inspector has waited more than 3 months to issue an improvement notice...

I don't think that is reasonable...first visit April, 2nd visit May IN issued July...

The client was given no guidance on the visits and asked for a ton of documents which (against advice) he supplied...then the Inspector issues an IN with 16 pages of follow up actions...most of which seem to indicate they didn't read the documents!

Note - on the day of the visit(s) the inspector did not leave site with any evidence...

Not in the sprit of assitance and guidance...in my view

Just looking for general views....it just seems a bit too long...even speeding tickets have to be served within 14 days...

Roundtuit  
#2 Posted : 05 July 2019 07:58:42(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Roundtuit

Unlike speeding fines the legislation covering HSE investigation by its nature does not ascribe time limits.

From your post the original visit was April during which something triggered the need for a follow up in May after which the IN was issued (likely dated June) - from experience this seems to be par for the course.

Based upon the current Enforcement Management Model http://www.hse.gov.uk/enforce/emm.pdf a 16 page appendix to an Improvement Notice indicates a lot of Gap Analysis was required

thanks 1 user thanked Roundtuit for this useful post.
Dazzling Puddock on 18/09/2019(UTC)
stevedm  
#3 Posted : 05 July 2019 11:27:46(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
stevedm

It wasn't an investigation it was just a fishing trip..

If I had spotted something on site that could potentially be cancer causing (noted on the first visit in April) and waited 3 months to issue a notice I would class that as negligence on my part...

I can accept a couple of weeks but 3 month...really par for the course.  Not in my expeience.  HID are much quicker.  FOD however it seems anything goes...

boblewis  
#4 Posted : 05 July 2019 21:38:03(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
boblewis

12 weeks is not that great a time span especially if an inspector has to plough through documentation - clearly he had identifiedsome poorly managed area and would have discussed the matter with his supervision before acting

stevedm  
#5 Posted : 06 July 2019 07:14:26(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
stevedm

Thanks for the replies...but it gets worse...the inspectors supervisor also attended the first visit...neither of them mentioned a breach at that time...I guess I am just used to a higher standard of response.

peter gotch  
#6 Posted : 06 July 2019 11:23:39(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
peter gotch

Puzzled about advice not to give an HSE Inspector documents they ask for (except once in a situation where litigation privilege might be applied). 

I don't think we are getting a full picture of the story.

Which means that it is very difficult to comment on the time between first visit and the service of a Notice.

Things have changed somewhat with the introduction of Fee for Intervention but this posting doesn't indicate whether an FFI notice has been issued, nor when.

But in the days when I worked for HSE, usually an IN would be served when a duty holder did not act on advice given previously, not usually (though sometimes) at first visit.

Todai  
#7 Posted : 07 July 2019 06:48:11(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Todai

Originally Posted by: stevedm Go to Quoted Post

It wasn't an investigation it was just a fishing trip..

If I had spotted something on site that could potentially be cancer causing (noted on the first visit in April) and waited 3 months to issue a notice I would class that as negligence on my part...

I can accept a couple of weeks but 3 month...really par for the course.  Not in my expeience.  HID are much quicker.  FOD however it seems anything goes...

make a complaint instead of crying on hear and you may get your answer from them

Roundtuit  
#8 Posted : 07 July 2019 12:03:34(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Roundtuit

Originally Posted by: Todai Go to Quoted Post
make a complaint instead of crying on hear and you may get your answer from them

IMHO this post will be drip feeding information until someone offers a plausible justification to actually raise a complaint with HSE for the issuing of the Improvement Notice.

thanks 1 user thanked Roundtuit for this useful post.
Todai on 08/07/2019(UTC)
stevedm  
#9 Posted : 08 July 2019 07:06:11(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
stevedm

What a poor response for safety 'professionals'...that will teach me for asking for a general opinion...you just get abuse...

Mod please close this item.

Xavier123  
#10 Posted : 08 July 2019 08:31:48(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Xavier123

Without proper context its not possible to be much more helpful. Every enforcement decision is within the context of the individual facts.

Regardless, if the subject of the Notice is substantively correct i.e. a matter is non-compliant with law and requires improvement, then the length of time between between 'visit' and service is formally irrelevant. If it remains non-compliant now, then it is still non-compliant and the Notice is presumably justifiable. You can bemoan the time period taken and possibly with some merit but it won't change the fundamental non-compliance.

One could argue that the company had a similar amount of time to figure it out for themselves and address it ...

thanks 1 user thanked Xavier123 for this useful post.
A Kurdziel on 08/07/2019(UTC)
Todai  
#11 Posted : 08 July 2019 08:48:05(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Todai

Originally Posted by: stevedm Go to Quoted Post

What a poor response for safety 'professionals'...that will teach me for asking for a general opinion...you just get abuse...

Mod please close this item.


I think you need to step into the real world and reflect on a true account of what 'abuse' is, you asked a question and were given opinions and have been given a plausible situation with timescales as to why this notice was served somewhat a few months later than your perceived opinion.
Just because people don't agree with your statement doesn't make it abuse, as a 'safety professional' you should understand that! or maybe you don't.... as I said earlier, contact and make a complaint to the HSE and you'll get a true response to the situation as opposed to crying on a forum that nobody agrees with you. 

Also, if you felt so strongly regarding the post theres an option to delete the topic, no need to post to lock it.
Todai 

Edited by user 08 July 2019 08:57:54(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

nosdohr  
#12 Posted : 09 July 2019 15:50:49(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
nosdohr

I obviously don’t know the details here and would really need more info however...

My experience has been nothing like this. If you engage and assist them they are normally rather responsive. Surly the timescale in which the enforcement officer was 'given' to issue the notice anyone within their duties as a 'safety professional' would have done whatever were necessary to make the notice needless. If they had so long to issue it, the client had just as long to rectify any issues before being issued it. I would have been all over the issues during this timescale, or is it just me?

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