Rank: Forum user 
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Hi All, A question about Guarding on older machines such as this. This is a part of our business that I've not been involved with before and after a tour of the facility last week I was concerned about this particular machine https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xYql0ROdUtU
Where do we stand with regard to the exposed elements of the folding machanism?
A what point does guarding become not "Practicable" and does that mean the machine can still be used.
We have a much newer folder with light beams front and back and no exposed machanism but this old one does still get used.
Andy
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Rank: Super forum user
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Fiesta, I have not seen the exact same machine. I am pretty sure an HSE inspector would not insist on additional guarding, but the RA and training would be required to say do not touch parts while machine is moving.
I have seen at one of my customers a roller bender. The operator presents the metal sheet to the rollers then starts them moving. If an operator held on to the metal sheet he would be drawn into the rollers and crushed to death.
My customer said they had had an Improvement Notice to fit an e-stop AND an electrically controlled brake that stopped the rollers in a few seconds, but there was no requirement to fit guards - the operator must release the sheet when the rollers pull the sheet.
So Fiesta, I expect in your case no additional guards would be required. Edited by user 06 August 2019 19:10:39(UTC)
| Reason: Re-worded a bit
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Rank: Forum user
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Hi John,
Thanks for you reply. There is a kind of dead man's handle as an emergency stop, i.e. you let go and the machine stops dead. I'm just working on the RA and SOP so I'll make sure things are spelt out very clearly.
Andy
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 1 user thanked fiesta for this useful post.
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With the small amount of info we can get (I have no sound at work so am not sure if there is commentary) it looks like the most dangerous point is when the metal is gripped whilst the operator hlds the work piece. This could present an entrappment hazard. Is there a way of using a trolley (for example) to rest the work piece on? The piece is gripped, the trolley wheeled out of the way and the process starts. I also would expect some sort of barrier or light beam that would cut the machine out if approached whilst the bending is taking place.
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1 user thanked CptBeaky for this useful post.
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Rank: Super forum user 
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I can't comment on what I think a HSE inspector would require, I think that JohnW has that experience behind him. However, if I was looking at this from a PUWER standpoint for a client I would be referring to current state of the art as per the HSE guidance. That would be EN 12622. I am sure that a few fixed side guards at the rear (appropriately CE marked as required by the Machinery Directive/Supply of Machinery Safety Regulations, and then a light guard at the rear would be a simple enough solution, as long as it is implemented correctly. The front is a little more complex but again do-able with some thought.
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1 user thanked paul.skyrme for this useful post.
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Thanks for the addtional responses Paul & CptB. The rear is protected by a lockable gate so not exposed like the one in the video. But no trip switch.
There is a supporting attachment for when working with larger sheets.
I'll look in to the EN12622
Thanks Both.
Andy
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Rank: Super forum user
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fiesta, in my response I was relating what I believe would be HSE inspector advice for old machines. For added safety our colleagues above have made suggestions, and yes a light/trip device could be installed at the front to prevent operator contacting the sheet while it is moving; such devices are common on presses.
You could also look at what new machines are equipped with, they will offer better compliance with PUWER and you may be able retro-fit protection devices
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Rank: Forum user
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Hi John, I mentioned in my initial post that this is an area of our business that I've not been involved in before, and to be honest I was just getting involved because I had some spare time and wanted to learn a bit.
We have a new Folding machine that is all singing / all dancing with the light barrier that stops it with just 9 mm of movement once the light beam is broken.
It was this contrast that led me to post initially. The director at work responsible for this area is more qualified than me, well higher IOSH memberhsip anyway but when I opened the question about additional guarding on this older machine he wasn't particularly interested. I wasn't convinced even thoogh I was relying on my NEBOSH learnings on guarding from 15 years ago.
We'll see what progress I can make.
Thanks again.
Andy
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1 user thanked fiesta for this useful post.
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I've seen the same type of machine, and used it. It had a rear gate with switches and light guards front. The most dangerous part of the operation is when the workpiece is starting to bend, with a larger part than that show, the exposed workpiece REALLY moves fast...
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