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A Kurdziel  
#1 Posted : 08 August 2019 09:38:05(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
A Kurdziel

I saw this piece on the BBC and it made me wonder if it is more widely known.  So this is a warning to marine biologists and others that keep live coral in their aquaria.

See this report from the BBC about a woman who suffered serious health effects from handling a piece of Palythoa coral- see https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-shropshire-49269013

More on this coral and its possible toxic effects at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palythoa

Hazardous substances don’t always come with an SDS.  

thanks 1 user thanked A Kurdziel for this useful post.
hilary on 08/08/2019(UTC)
peterL  
#2 Posted : 08 August 2019 10:01:58(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
peterL

Stuff like this annoys me as a keeper of a marine aquaria, a little reading (which should always be done by the purchaser prior to buying any invertibrate, fish or coral for compatability reasons) would have informed them that this was the case, the majority of corals can exude toxins when threatened (as do sea slugs) and as for not knowing it was a living entity why did they think the selling aquarist had this coral species in a tank and plastic copy versions (no doubt) on a shelf nearby - really!! there are even garden plants that are poisonous - does everything have to carry a warning label in this world (i.e. beware of this jellyfish it may sting - other things may sting also), rant over.

Roundtuit  
#3 Posted : 08 August 2019 10:17:03(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Roundtuit

With peterL - a tank with coral is just a tad more specialist than gold fish in a bowl.

The story indicates a lack of knowledge verging on negligent - it appears rasing the age at which pets can be bought does not always result in animal protection.

thanks 2 users thanked Roundtuit for this useful post.
jwk on 09/08/2019(UTC), jwk on 09/08/2019(UTC)
Roundtuit  
#4 Posted : 08 August 2019 10:17:03(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Roundtuit

With peterL - a tank with coral is just a tad more specialist than gold fish in a bowl.

The story indicates a lack of knowledge verging on negligent - it appears rasing the age at which pets can be bought does not always result in animal protection.

thanks 2 users thanked Roundtuit for this useful post.
jwk on 09/08/2019(UTC), jwk on 09/08/2019(UTC)
A Kurdziel  
#5 Posted : 08 August 2019 10:28:43(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
A Kurdziel

Ranting is ok but most people assume (dangerous thing to do) that something you buy in a shop is “safe” and that if a danger exists some sort of legal binding warning is attached eg a label or an SDS.  Apparently you can just buy this sort of coral in a shop and as far as I know there are no rules about who can buy this and what it might contain. The toxin is one of the most toxic substances known but it is not on any official list such as Schedule 5 of Anti-terrorism, Crime and Security Act 2001 which includes things like botoxin and ricin. Feels like there is a gap somewhere

Roundtuit  
#6 Posted : 08 August 2019 10:47:53(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Roundtuit

Most shops (and businesses) have never heard of the General Product Safety Regulation let alone put it in to practice - all incorrectly relying upon the previous stage in the supply chain, and when you are an on-line entity registered elsewhere in the world.....

thanks 2 users thanked Roundtuit for this useful post.
A Kurdziel on 08/08/2019(UTC), A Kurdziel on 08/08/2019(UTC)
Roundtuit  
#7 Posted : 08 August 2019 10:47:53(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Roundtuit

Most shops (and businesses) have never heard of the General Product Safety Regulation let alone put it in to practice - all incorrectly relying upon the previous stage in the supply chain, and when you are an on-line entity registered elsewhere in the world.....

thanks 2 users thanked Roundtuit for this useful post.
A Kurdziel on 08/08/2019(UTC), A Kurdziel on 08/08/2019(UTC)
peterL  
#8 Posted : 08 August 2019 12:42:10(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
peterL

Dogs bite, Cats scratch, Snakes are venomous, even some fish are very aggressive (Red Belly Piranha) - should we safety label them all?

In my extensive experience all specialist marine aquarists never sell livestock without enquiring about tank size, species already within your tank for compatibility reasons, age of the tank (properly cycled) and always have provided advice re Coral, as some fish just devour it, so I think the point I'm making is that the buyer should be aware when buying what was obviously livestock that there may be some element of risk (i.e. handling a Lion Fish could be very painful if not fatal depending on alergic reaction), therefore read up on your pets and take the necessary precautions.

Also Chainsaws can be bought in shops are they are not safe in the wrong uneducated hands

Edited by user 08 August 2019 12:44:56(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

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A Kurdziel on 08/08/2019(UTC)
A Kurdziel  
#9 Posted : 08 August 2019 13:32:29(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
A Kurdziel

Looking atthe General Product Safety Regulations , it looks that there is no duty on the supply chain to reduce the risk to as low as reasonably practical. The duty is only to demonstrate that the product is safe and in regulation 2 is specifically says that “The feasibility of obtaining higher levels of safety or the availability of other products presenting a lesser degree of risk shall not constitute grounds for considering a product to be a dangerous product;”.   There is a duty in Reg 7 to provide warnings “commensurate with the characteristics of the products” but compared to the requirements under Machinery regs  or CLP it’s all a bit vague.

And yes chainsaws are dangerous but most people can realise this by looking at them but piece of coral looks so pretty and harmless, and there has never been a film called “The Telford  Coral Massacre”!

achrn  
#10 Posted : 08 August 2019 14:56:14(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
achrn

Originally Posted by: peterL Go to Quoted Post

Dogs bite, Cats scratch, Snakes are venomous, even some fish are very aggressive (Red Belly Piranha) - should we safety label them all?

My understanding is that piranha in a tank are often rather shy.  On the other hand, I had a comic-looking puffer fish take a lump out of my hand once - one that ate cockles without me removing them from the shell first, so had some serious dentition (I'm told that a big one in the wild can take your toe off - they think it's some sort of slug or worm crawling along the bottom).  I've never kept marines, but even I know stressed corals can produce nasty toxins, and have very little sympathy for anyone keeping them that doesn't know that much.

biker1  
#11 Posted : 08 August 2019 15:46:08(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
biker1

I came across a post on facebook that is appropriate:

'I really think it is time to take the warning labels off everything, and let stupidity work its way out of the gene pool.'

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Roundtuit on 08/08/2019(UTC)
Roundtuit  
#12 Posted : 08 August 2019 15:53:12(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Roundtuit

Only problem with that approach is you can guarantee they won't fully eliminate themselves but end up needing significant care - unless we have a special one-way ambulance service

thanks 2 users thanked Roundtuit for this useful post.
jwk on 09/08/2019(UTC), jwk on 09/08/2019(UTC)
Roundtuit  
#13 Posted : 08 August 2019 15:53:12(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Roundtuit

Only problem with that approach is you can guarantee they won't fully eliminate themselves but end up needing significant care - unless we have a special one-way ambulance service

thanks 2 users thanked Roundtuit for this useful post.
jwk on 09/08/2019(UTC), jwk on 09/08/2019(UTC)
hilary  
#14 Posted : 09 August 2019 07:02:34(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
hilary

This is an educational forum.  I did not know this about coral and now I do.  Not everyone is a specialist in everything but if someone asked me in future "what are the risks from having an aquarium in the foyer" I might now have some knowledge.  This would then spur me on to look at other hazards from an aquarium (not just the fish which I think most of us are aware can be dangerous) and, thus, I would be able to complete a suitable and sufficient risk assessment.

Sometimes one should just say "thanks for the information" because no knowledge is ever wasted.

thanks 3 users thanked hilary for this useful post.
A Kurdziel on 09/08/2019(UTC), jwk on 09/08/2019(UTC), shaunosborne on 09/08/2019(UTC)
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