Rank: New forum user 
|
Interesting topic came up yesterday at a meeting, we currently have a facility on some land which is owned by some local crofters. (or might be owned by ...long story i think) They don't own the buildings.
We have been having some Vandalism issues on an building on the land, We did put Heras fencing around the Building to try and stop the Vandals from gaining access and to also protect the Vandals from injuring themselves, Local police suggested this.
The "Landowners" have demanded that the Heras fencing is removed and taken away from site, which we have done, but not what we want to do...
So as the occupier, the person who is in occupation, or has control of the premises owes a duty of care to all their visitors. The duty is covered by both criminal law, the Health and Safety at Work, etc Act 1974 (HSWA) and its related Regulations, or claims for compensation under civil law, But could the liability fall to the landowner and not to us as the lands tenants as we had put in place reasonable measures to protect the public and they have has us remove said protections measures.
I'm not looking at the Land Lord and Tenants act or the Occupiers Liability Act. Although these acts might cover the issue.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Rank: Super forum user 
|
In terms of civil liability then the Occupier's Liability Act certainly applies and Health and Safety at Work Act where you are thinking about Criminal law. I don't think the Landlord and Tenant Act will cover the issues you have identified. I would certainly expect the landowner to assist you in protecting your business and would expect them to take reasonable steps to support your protection of your business and premises, that is a purely civil matter and I think that is where you should start.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Rank: Super forum user
|
Not quite sure I understand what the arrangement is – why did they request you remove the fencing was it on their land? If that was the case then I think they may be able to do that. It sounds as if you have the occupier’s liability for the buildings, so if you are worried about the vandalism and the risk of the vandals hurting themselves you may have to look to putting protective measures actually on your building. I don’t think the fact that your preferred method, i.e. fencing on someone else’s land has been turned down is a defence. I don’t think the land owner would be responsible as it sounds as if the land is fine – it’s your buildings which are the issue, so you need to find some other solution.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Rank: Super forum user
|
Why did the object to the Heras fencing. Are you there under sufferance ie the crofters don’t want you there or they want you to pay them rent or whatever? If you are entitled to be on the land and you need the Heras fencing up you could have kept it and told them if they wanted you take it down they could have gone to court. There THEY would have had to prove the fencing was a nuisance or something (not sure about Scots law) and should be taken down, but as you have taken it down your position is weakened as they can say that you have shown you don’t need the fencing Sometimes you need to play hardball.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Rank: New forum user
|
Thank for the advice, my thinking or reasoning for asking this one is more thinking about aspects that we can reply back to the group of landlords with to make them think about i.e. they could be liable if someone were to be injured. We have put reasonable measures in place but only for the landlord group to ask us to remove them, but yes other measures will now have to be looked at to prevent people from accessing the building.
Yes we are entitled to be on the land in question and the The object of the Hera fencing is to keep vandals out of the building in question, We cant move the site we are on and the "landlords" believe they have a claim to the site. (Its a complicated set of circumstances which im only just getting my head around)
|
|
|
|
|
|
Rank: Super forum user 
|
Nick, it's a complex situation that hurts my head just thinking about it. So, you install heras fencing to keep vandals/tresspassers out of your buildings for security purposes. However, I don't see how these unwanted visitors could come to harm unless there is something dangerous within your buildings. While tresspassers are covered by the OLA, it is only of any real concern if there is a danger from within the premises.
Hence I can't see a good argument for the safety of vandals/tresspassers with the removal of the heras fencing - only the security of your property. I think you need another angle in terms of the 'Landlord' or crofters being responsible for any damage to your property. Meanwhile, would the installation of security cameras act as a deterrent for unwanted visitors?
|
|
|
|
|
|
Rank: Super forum user
|
Nick - have the crofters provided any reason to ask you to remove the fencing, and/or why they think that advice from the Police was not valid? The LAW appear to be on your side!
|
|
|
|
|
|
Rank: Super forum user
|
Originally Posted by: peter gotch  Nick - have the crofters provided any reason to ask you to remove the fencing, and/or why they think that advice from the Police was not valid? The LAW appear to be on your side!
But they did take the fencing down, which has weakened their position. If they had stuck firm then the locals would have had to have gone to court and probably lost. You if he wants to fight this he has to go and prove his case.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Rank: Super forum user
|
AK, agreed. The LAW was on Nick's side until the fencing was voluntarily removed!
|
|
|
|
|
|
You cannot post new topics in this forum.
You cannot reply to topics in this forum.
You cannot delete your posts in this forum.
You cannot edit your posts in this forum.
You cannot create polls in this forum.
You cannot vote in polls in this forum.