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Mersey  
#1 Posted : 08 October 2019 19:36:15(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Mersey

I have recently joined a company that has 100's of SOP's with a document control system in place (QA dept, QC Dept, Production Dept, New product development Dept, Warehouse & logistic Dept) these SOP's take the form of a standard template with one of the sections being ‘Health and Safety’. Some of H&S sections say 'N/A’ and others just have a small narrative with some Do's and Don’ts (just written text no pictures)

For all of the 100s of documents they have limited H&S policies in place, some of the obvious ones missing would be Legionella / Working at Height / Permit to work / Lock out tag out / Electrical etc..

For me it is critical that any site/ company has a list of H&S policies which indicate who does what and who is responsible for what on site.

Without these in place there is little to monitor/ police the company’s Health and safety performance against, other than accident rates and near miss reporting.

They seem content on relying of HSE guidelines (which wouldn’t be a problem if the if they knew them all and how to interpret them), there does not seem a will to put their own policies in place.

Has anyone else ever had a resistance to the implementation of H&S policies at their sites? They are not saying that they don’t want to do them but feel that there are other priorities for me to be getting on with like managing CDM projects etc.

I’ve never known anything like it, where on the list of priorities would you put EHS management system? For me unless there is immediate danger then its right up there. It shouldn’t be difficult to convince the board that this is essential to successful company.

Its hard to write up a full EHS management system over night but I want them to accept that it absolutely needs doing in a professional manner and not getting into a row.

Thoughts welcome because I can’t sleep over it!

Roundtuit  
#2 Posted : 08 October 2019 20:44:44(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Roundtuit

Are you confusing policies with supporting arrangements and procedures?

The policy document for the major management systems is typically a wooly and vague one page statement signed by the most senior person.

There is no need for a certified management system for a business to be legally compliant. Even customers really don't care about such matters, it is the selection schemes (PQQ) that want certificates to save their having to do work assessing a multitude of answers.

Many years ago at the launch of BS 5750 it was sold on the basis that in the future any company without would not be trading - there are still a lot of companies that do not hold ISO 9001 who are in business.

IMHO it sounds as though you have a perception of what you should be doing and this is not gelling with why this employer engaged you. I would suggest reviewing the advertisement, your offer / position description / contract and making a decision on the best course from there otherwise you will just become more frustrated.

Mersey  
#3 Posted : 09 October 2019 07:31:30(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Mersey

Thanks for chipping in Roundtuit,

Perhaps I never explained myself correctly, normally in companies I have worked they would have a Corporate Policy manual which normally goes a bit further than HSE guidelines, and from those corporate policies individual sites will build a list of procedures to adhere to those corporate guidelines if applicable to their site.

I know the site I'm on at present has a wooly one pager safety policy signed by the plant manager displayed with the insurance certs and environmental policy too.

They don't have any "Umbrella" H&S policies in place to go on a build their site procedures.

(Perhaps they don't need any corporate EHS Policies? And are fine to just go straight into writing procedures based on HSE guidelines, its not how I've normally seen it done but I could understand that argument.)

Consequently they lack several key EHS procedures, such as Permit to Work , control of contractors, emergency planning, accident and investigation, confined space entry etc....

I hope that makes more sense

Natasha.Graham  
#4 Posted : 09 October 2019 07:41:16(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Natasha.Graham

Originally Posted by: Mersey Go to Quoted Post

Thanks for chipping in Roundtuit,

Perhaps I never explained myself correctly, normally in companies I have worked they would have a Corporate Policy manual which normally goes a bit further than HSE guidelines, and from those corporate policies individual sites will build a list of procedures to adhere to those corporate guidelines if applicable to their site.

I know the site I'm on at present has a wooly one pager safety policy signed by the plant manager displayed with the insurance certs and environmental policy too.

They don't have any "Umbrella" H&S policies in place to go on a build their site procedures.

(Perhaps they don't need any corporate EHS Policies? And are fine to just go straight into writing procedures based on HSE guidelines, its not how I've normally seen it done but I could understand that argument.)

Consequently they lack several key EHS procedures, such as Permit to Work , control of contractors, emergency planning, accident and investigation, confined space entry etc....

I hope that makes more sense

Roundtuit is right - you don't need a Safety Management System, but it can help especially in larger organisations.  Smaller organisations generally don't have full management systems, but do just identify the operating procedures they need and put those in place.  I've worked in both so can see both sides!

Sounds to me as thought you have identified some serious gaps - I would personally focus on those gaps first and then decide whether to wage war on implementing a full management system.

thanks 1 user thanked Natasha.Graham for this useful post.
chris42 on 09/10/2019(UTC)
Roundtuit  
#5 Posted : 09 October 2019 08:07:19(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Roundtuit

Natasha has provided a nice concise summary.

With your newer information I would be preparing a gap analysis for the board highlighting the opportunities for improvement of which the final slide would be boxing it all off as a management system and not necessarily trying to sell a certified system (someone will ask how much).

thanks 1 user thanked Roundtuit for this useful post.
chris42 on 09/10/2019(UTC)
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