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Roundtuit  
#1 Posted : 18 March 2020 19:44:37(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Roundtuit

For those not on the HSE mailing list an update on welfare access has been issued

https://www.hse.gov.uk/logistics/index.htm?utm_source=govdelivery&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=coronavirus&utm_term=1803&utm_content=welfare-facilities#

We have reviewed our approach including guidance to duty holders and re-examined the Workplace (Health, Safety and Welfare) Regulations 1992, in particular Regulations 20 and 21. We will begin to update our guidance to say that drivers must have access to welfare facilities in the premises they visit as part of their work.

The actual mailing is quite specific stating prohibiting driver access is against the law

https://content.govdelivery.com/accounts/UKHSE/bulletins/281cc1d

thanks 1 user thanked Roundtuit for this useful post.
Kim Hedges on 21/03/2020(UTC)
CptBeaky  
#2 Posted : 19 March 2020 11:25:07(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
CptBeaky

So for clarification is this is a duty to the company being delivered too? As opposed to a delivery company ensuring that their drivers have access when they make deliveries?

Roundtuit  
#3 Posted : 19 March 2020 12:44:55(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Roundtuit

That is very much the way it reads.

Given the mention of coronavirus in the hyperlink it appears to be a response to some businesses attempting to pull up the drawbridge and lock out non-direct employees.

Does not refer to the delivery company installing a seat to the rear of the vehicle ala Clarkson in the Top Gear Polar Challenge nor the adjustment made to a Jaguar boot in the India special

aud  
#4 Posted : 19 March 2020 19:08:13(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
aud

Does anyone know WHAT law the HSE are referring to?

Roundtuit  
#5 Posted : 19 March 2020 21:01:22(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Roundtuit

HASAW 1974 and its supporting instrument The Workplace (Health, Safety and Welfare) Regulations 1992:

Sanitary conveniences regulation 20

Washing facility regulation 21

I do get your direction that these things are typically written "the employer" something tells me this one will be expanded to ascribe duties to the employer / premises occupier for employees and others.

thanks 1 user thanked Roundtuit for this useful post.
Kim Hedges on 21/03/2020(UTC)
aud  
#6 Posted : 21 March 2020 08:16:59(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
aud

Originally Posted by: Roundtuit Go to Quoted Post

HASAW 1974 and its supporting instrument The Workplace (Health, Safety and Welfare) Regulations 1992:

Sanitary conveniences regulation 20

Washing facility regulation 21

I do get your direction that these things are typically written "the employer" something tells me this one will be expanded to ascribe duties to the employer / premises occupier for employees and others.

Yes the HSE have updated further, and they do clarify they are 'looking at' amending the Workplace Regs. In other words, there is no law yet. Cheeky, classic safety trick of claiming law when none exists. 

Not that I disagree with the principle of provision at all - it's just that I am a bit fussy about the truth. I can 'resell' this guidance to my bosses, who have indeed closed down access for visiting drivers, knowing they won't know the difference, but I look to the HSE for pedantic accuracy not spin.

Kim Hedges  
#7 Posted : 21 March 2020 12:18:35(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Kim Hedges

I was a delivery driver for many years, this gripe is not new by stretch of the imagination, many companies, especially the really big companies were the worst offenders of preventing visiting drivers from using facilities. 

I have yet to hear of an improvement notice, prohibition notice or prosecution over this blatant disregard of the laws, dispite hundreds of drivers complaining over the years.  I certainly complained a few times in different places around the country. 

Another bugbear is having a parking place for transport vehicles, so many industrial and retail zones do not have any set aside areas.  It's all double yellow lines and security saying 'you can't stop there'. 

And then we have local councils all over the country either not providing toilets or removing toilet facilities due to cut backs and lack of government investment, this last 10 years has been bad, but it's been bad for 30 years plus.  In a similar vain, laybys all over the country, not looked after by the local councils, bad road conditions in the laybys making it a worry for drivers trying to park up for a break.  

Lack of greasy spoon food stalls in remote areas, as the councils have stopped giving out licenses, so even if you find a place to stop (such as the Downs in Bristol or most places in Avonmouth) there are no provisions for a drink and a pee. 

Now we have the Covid19 and all of a sudden truck drivers are favoured again - the powers that be are a bunch of 2 faced B******.    

AcornsConsult  
#8 Posted : 21 March 2020 17:41:08(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
AcornsConsult

It stems from a successful recent court case where some drivers had issues about the lack of facilities for them.  I seem to recall the jist was that whilst they were on the site, the site had a responsibility to them inclusive of dealing with their basic bodily functions.  That would seem to be achieved if if they set a portaloo up outside rather than the posh one with mood music and soft lighting in the executive suite. Can you imagine a consultant / rep visiting the big client's offices and then being told they can't use the facilities! So why do it to the drivers?  If there was such an issue with CV19 then perhaps the company could or should look at closing the site to all visitors.   I think this is the incident - https://www.ukhaulier.co.uk/news/road-transport/drivers/jack-richards-son-ltd-refuse-delivery-after-drivers-denied-basic-facilities/

peter gotch  
#9 Posted : 21 March 2020 17:58:42(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
peter gotch

I'm with Aud on this - the duty under the Workplace Regs to provide is with the employer of the driver, NOT the customer.

However, it's obviously reasonable for the haulier to expect their customers to make facilities available.

So, pending a change to the law, any haulier could make it a contract condition and perhaps such condition is the basis of the case that has been mentioned.

Edited by user 21 March 2020 17:59:41(UTC)  | Reason: Typo

biker1  
#10 Posted : 23 March 2020 15:25:27(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
biker1

My youngest daughter is a truck driver, so it is a pressing issue for her. Don't think she's had much trouble being able to use facilities, but then access is always hit and miss. Let's face it - the shortage of public loos in this country is a national disgrace. Probably not so much of an issue in town centres at the moment, but in normal times having a stroll around the town in the evening can be a fraught affair; been there, done that on many occassions. It's not as if you can nip into a pub at the moment. I'm sure there must be a part of the Human Rights Act that could apply here - it would be good if this legislation was used for something useful instead of being a criminal's charter.

OliverWallace  
#11 Posted : 23 March 2020 15:59:12(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
OliverWallace

We have a large warehouse and previously welcomed numerous drivers for (un)loading all week long. The could use our facilities, canteen and smoking sheler. In light of Covid-19 we banned all from entering the building except one or two per week who need to supervise the loading of their vehicles. For the rest we created an "air lock" for the exchange of paperwork and had a decent portaloo delivered to the site which has a built in sink, and hand sanitiser. Its cleaned weekly by Euroloo as well. It wasn't really a difficult situation to overcome.

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