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HoweD  
#81 Posted : 12 June 2020 11:48:03(UTC)
Rank: New forum user
HoweD

Originally Posted by: craigroberts76 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Holliday42333 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: craigroberts76 Go to Quoted Post

And yet the N95 masks were being sold by large distributers a few weeks ago for £95+vat for 20.  I'm in the mind that if they are to be used for public transport etc "outside" of working hours, then that has to a) be a better and environmentally better than binning b) these have to be better than a scalf, t'shirt or thong as recommended by government agencies. 

For reference, N95 are different to KN95.  N95 is the US standard that was agreed to be an equivalent of FFP2 and approved for use in healthcare if required.

thanks for the clarification

Now that we have them (supplied by our US office), provided not used as RPE in the workplace and staff aware that they cannot be used as RPE, using instead of a facecovering made from a tee-shirt surely has to be better than simply throwing away and not putting the company at risk?

CptBeaky  
#82 Posted : 12 June 2020 11:55:47(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
CptBeaky

"These masks offer no protection to yourself, and only limited protection to those around you. They are not PPE, and not intended to be used as such. Feel free to take some!"

Something like that?

A bit like those "ornamental" bongs you can buy at most markets.

Holliday42333  
#83 Posted : 12 June 2020 12:15:33(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Holliday42333

Originally Posted by: HoweD Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: craigroberts76 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Holliday42333 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: craigroberts76 Go to Quoted Post

And yet the N95 masks were being sold by large distributers a few weeks ago for £95+vat for 20.  I'm in the mind that if they are to be used for public transport etc "outside" of working hours, then that has to a) be a better and environmentally better than binning b) these have to be better than a scalf, t'shirt or thong as recommended by government agencies. 

For reference, N95 are different to KN95.  N95 is the US standard that was agreed to be an equivalent of FFP2 and approved for use in healthcare if required.

thanks for the clarification

Now that we have them (supplied by our US office), provided not used as RPE in the workplace and staff aware that they cannot be used as RPE, using instead of a facecovering made from a tee-shirt surely has to be better than simply throwing away and not putting the company at risk?

So have you got NR95, as you originally alluded to, or N95?

Personally, I'm not sure I'd sanction the use of NR95 even as a face covering.  They may physically work as well as t-shirt material but will give people and even bigger false sense of security as to most they would appear to be no different to a bells and whistles pukka FFP3.

It may seem wasteful but if I were you I'd get procurement to take the hit (if they have purchased NR95) and have them not feel too bad about it.  They were obviously trying to do the correct thing in a dynamic and uncertain environment.  Lots of people will have fallen for the same issue.

thanks 1 user thanked Holliday42333 for this useful post.
HoweD on 12/06/2020(UTC)
Roundtuit  
#84 Posted : 12 June 2020 12:17:17(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Roundtuit

They look like PPE, they are fraudulently marked as PPE, "buyer/use beware" disclaimers have no standing - unfortunately the performance of these "fakes" is incredibly variable in some cases offering less protection than covering the face with a T-shirt.

thanks 2 users thanked Roundtuit for this useful post.
MariahHocking on 16/06/2020(UTC), MariahHocking on 16/06/2020(UTC)
Roundtuit  
#85 Posted : 12 June 2020 12:17:17(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Roundtuit

They look like PPE, they are fraudulently marked as PPE, "buyer/use beware" disclaimers have no standing - unfortunately the performance of these "fakes" is incredibly variable in some cases offering less protection than covering the face with a T-shirt.

thanks 2 users thanked Roundtuit for this useful post.
MariahHocking on 16/06/2020(UTC), MariahHocking on 16/06/2020(UTC)
stevedm  
#86 Posted : 12 June 2020 12:43:04(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
stevedm

...don't think anyone is disagreeing with that...my whole point is this throughout your posts here and on other discussions glosses over a key fact and bunches things together to make an argument to 'stick it to the man'...if the OP wants to give these away as face covering it is fine better that than burning it...if you can get a bit for charity then great...you have made the case these things are NOT PPE and have no place at work...however socially why wouldn't you use them...90% of the people I have seen in the UK don't wear them properly anyway...personally I wear a shemagh in public spaces and that isn't PPE unless you are a terrorist... :)  

Roundtuit  
#87 Posted : 12 June 2020 12:58:01(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Roundtuit

Originally Posted by: stevedm Go to Quoted Post
..make sure you don't take it out of context
Roundtuit  
#88 Posted : 12 June 2020 12:58:01(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Roundtuit

Originally Posted by: stevedm Go to Quoted Post
..make sure you don't take it out of context
Bigmac1  
#89 Posted : 13 June 2020 07:56:16(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Bigmac1

Roundtuit  Why do you reply twice to every comment lol, I think you need to look at your settings, or you just want to get your point across

Roundtuit  
#90 Posted : 13 June 2020 09:59:00(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Roundtuit

Asked web help one week ago what has happened - every post i have made has duplicated by example see Brexit sticky on page 1. If you know of a setting I can change as I find it disturbing to have an echo (btw deleting does not work as it removes both)
thanks 2 users thanked Roundtuit for this useful post.
peter gotch on 14/06/2020(UTC), peter gotch on 14/06/2020(UTC)
Roundtuit  
#91 Posted : 13 June 2020 09:59:00(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Roundtuit

Asked web help one week ago what has happened - every post i have made has duplicated by example see Brexit sticky on page 1. If you know of a setting I can change as I find it disturbing to have an echo (btw deleting does not work as it removes both)
thanks 2 users thanked Roundtuit for this useful post.
peter gotch on 14/06/2020(UTC), peter gotch on 14/06/2020(UTC)
peter gotch  
#92 Posted : 14 June 2020 10:50:20(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
peter gotch

Roundtuit - I had thought that adding a thank would duplicate but that doesn't seem to happen now, so may be something has improved, though of course it might be that when I log back in I will find that my single thank has multiplied!

andrewjb1  
#93 Posted : 15 June 2020 08:17:20(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
andrewjb1

Good Morning

Can anyone help with the mask requirments for first aiders, we were going to use the surgical masks but then we read several articles stating they should be FFP2 or FFP3 however these are difficult to get hold of.  I have also read the safety alert form the HSE regarding the N95 masks.  Just wondering whats best to provide to first aiders?

Thanks

Andrew

nic168  
#94 Posted : 15 June 2020 09:14:58(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
nic168

 weekend newspapers contain flyers offering deals on KN95masks from a company called Wellform. Apparently these are One of the highest  protective classes and featuer 5 layers  of protection from droplets, dust, bacteria, germs and smoke.

£8.99 each.

I am not surprised that people are buying them, they look good, company also sell surgical masks, faceshields and hand sanitiser.

This type of advert is all over the place, good agudance and HSE alerts are rarely seen or read by people outside of our area.

Roundtuit  
#95 Posted : 15 June 2020 09:25:37(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Roundtuit

Originally Posted by: andrewjb1 Go to Quoted Post
Can anyone help with the mask requirments for first aiders, we were going to use the surgical masks but then we read several articles stating they should be FFP2 or FFP3 however these are difficult to get hold of.

How has your RA determined any form of face covering is a necessity for First Aid let alone face fitted masks as a required control measure? Even in this pandemic there are lots of lazy approaches all too readily leaningto PPE as an attempt to be seen to be doing something to quell  insurers nerves.

http://forum.iosh.co.uk/posts/t129882-Medical-Emergency-in-the-Workplace-Covid-19-Controls

Roundtuit  
#96 Posted : 15 June 2020 09:25:37(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Roundtuit

Originally Posted by: andrewjb1 Go to Quoted Post
Can anyone help with the mask requirments for first aiders, we were going to use the surgical masks but then we read several articles stating they should be FFP2 or FFP3 however these are difficult to get hold of.

How has your RA determined any form of face covering is a necessity for First Aid let alone face fitted masks as a required control measure? Even in this pandemic there are lots of lazy approaches all too readily leaningto PPE as an attempt to be seen to be doing something to quell  insurers nerves.

http://forum.iosh.co.uk/posts/t129882-Medical-Emergency-in-the-Workplace-Covid-19-Controls

CptBeaky  
#97 Posted : 15 June 2020 09:30:52(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
CptBeaky

Originally Posted by: andrewjb1 Go to Quoted Post

Can anyone help with the mask requirments for first aiders, we were going to use the surgical masks but then we read several articles stating they should be FFP2 or FFP3 however these are difficult to get hold of.  I have also read the safety alert form the HSE regarding the N95 masks.  Just wondering whats best to provide to first aiders?

My understanding of this would be that a surgical mask would be seen as suitable. Preferably worn by both the patient and the first aider. Since an FFP mask would need to be face fit testing it is not reasonable to expect work places that don't have these facilities to carry out that testing for the first aiders. This combined with the current shortage of these masks mean tht safety would be compromised should they be a requirement.

The government guidance suggests that FFP3 masks should only be worn (as a protection against COVID) for health proffessionals. with a high risk of coming into contact with infected patients.

https://www.hse.gov.uk/coronavirus/first-aid-and-medicals/first-aid-certificate-coronavirus.htm

"If available, use:

  • a fluid-repellent surgical mask
  • disposable gloves
  • eye protection
  • apron or other suitable covering"

(about half way down that page)

thanks 1 user thanked CptBeaky for this useful post.
A Kurdziel on 17/06/2020(UTC)
Kate  
#98 Posted : 15 June 2020 09:53:09(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Kate

St John Ambulance advice for first aiders

https://www.sja.org.uk/get-advice/first-aid-advice/covid-19-advice-for-first-aiders/

The only mention of covering anyone's face is to cover a casualty's face with a cloth or towel when giving CPR. Plenty of other precautions to take though.

thanks 1 user thanked Kate for this useful post.
CptBeaky on 15/06/2020(UTC)
Brian Hagyard  
#99 Posted : 15 June 2020 12:42:19(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Brian Hagyard

The only place i have seen FFP masks for first aiders is in the schools guidance for dealing with young children who start exibiting Covid19 symptoms. manged to get a few  for our Nursery - and organise the face fit. Just hope they sit unued in the first aid box.

stevedm  
#100 Posted : 16 June 2020 08:40:05(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
stevedm

...we advise that the first aiders have a surgical mask and Face Shield...as the PT will/may be in distress it isn't appropriate all the time to force a mask on them...also there may be facial trauma that means it wouldn't be approrpiate...normal hygiene and disposal afterwards applies..

John Murray  
#101 Posted : 16 June 2020 16:12:31(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
John Murray

Originally Posted by: CptBeaky Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: andrewjb1 Go to Quoted Post

Can anyone help with the mask requirments for first aiders, we were going to use the surgical masks but then we read several articles stating they should be FFP2 or FFP3 however these are difficult to get hold of.  I have also read the safety alert form the HSE regarding the N95 masks.  Just wondering whats best to provide to first aiders?

My understanding of this would be that a surgical mask would be seen as suitable. Preferably worn by both the patient and the first aider. Since an FFP mask would need to be face fit testing it is not reasonable to expect work places that don't have these facilities to carry out that testing for the first aiders. This combined with the current shortage of these masks mean tht safety would be compromised should they be a requirement.

The government guidance suggests that FFP3 masks should only be worn (as a protection against COVID) for health proffessionals. with a high risk of coming into contact with infected patients.

https://www.hse.gov.uk/coronavirus/first-aid-and-medicals/first-aid-certificate-coronavirus.htm

"If available, use:

  • a fluid-repellent surgical mask
  • disposable gloves
  • eye protection
  • apron or other suitable covering"

(about half way down that page)

I'll continue to wear my FFP3 facemask......surgical masks are pretty useless at protecting the wearer from infection. And they're available at the local toolstore (although you can only purchase 5 at a time)

CptBeaky  
#102 Posted : 17 June 2020 07:37:06(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
CptBeaky

Fair enough. However I would expect you to get tired a lot quicker giving chest compressions wearing a properly fitted FFP3 than a surgical mask. My post was just highlighting the guidance available on the HSE website.

John Murray  
#103 Posted : 17 June 2020 08:00:05(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
John Murray

Originally Posted by: CptBeaky Go to Quoted Post

Fair enough. However I would expect you to get tired a lot quicker giving chest compressions wearing a properly fitted FFP3 than a surgical mask. My post was just highlighting the guidance available on the HSE website.

Surgical masks offer poorer protection than properly fitted FFP3....and the larger majority of FFP3 masks used in hospitals feature an expiration valve (most of the surgical masks allow significant bypass of inhaled air, their major use is to reduce the risk to the patient)

CptBeaky  
#104 Posted : 17 June 2020 08:06:46(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
CptBeaky

Strange, I was under the impression that valved masks were a big no-no in regards to COVID.

My point is the extra strain put on the lungs when breathing through a FFP3 mask means that you will run out of breath a lot quicker. The guidance is very clear that only healthcare professionals should wear FFP3 masks as protection against COVID.

It is not that I am saying FFP3 masks are bad, just that the guidance from the HSE (and St. John's) do not think they are necessary. Since these organisations are experts, I would but my trust in them. By all means wear a face fitted mask if it makes you feel safer, but there is only limited evidence that it will actually be any safer.

John Murray  
#105 Posted : 17 June 2020 08:20:42(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
John Murray

"This study focussed on the effectiveness of surgical masks against a range of airborne particles. Using separate tests to measure levels of inert particles and live aerosolised influenza virus, our findings show that surgical masks provide around a 6-fold reduction in exposure. Live viruses could be detected in the air behind all surgical masks tested. By contrast, properly fitted respirators could provide at least a 100-fold reduction" https://www.hse.gov.uk/research/rrhtm/rr619.htm

Holliday42333  
#106 Posted : 17 June 2020 08:26:57(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Holliday42333

Thw World Health Organisation now say that 3-ply medical masks do offer protection to the wearer.

https://www.who.int/emergencies/diseases/novel-coronavirus-2019/question-and-answers-hub/q-a-detail/q-a-on-covid-19-and-masks

Not sure how this has been derived considering airflow can be directed around the sides but perhaps it is because larger direct droplets will impact the mask.

CptBeaky  
#107 Posted : 17 June 2020 08:33:25(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
CptBeaky

I think we are looking at two separate points here. I agree that a properly fitted face mask will give you more protection against viruses, but that is not what the question was asking. The question was whether first aiders should be wearing them, for which the advice is no.

Given the current shortage of masks, the trouble getting them face fitted, the issues with insisting all first aiders are clean shaven and the fact that valved masks are not recommeded (meaning that breathing through them is difficult), is it reasonable to ask that first aiders wear them?

The advice from both the HSE and St.John's say they are not required. Of course you can ask that they be worn, it is up to the employer to decide what the controls are in place. However, it is not considered necessary. Of course if you have a link to a reputable organistaion that disagrees with this (in regards to first aid) we will read it and take it into consideration.

John Murray  
#108 Posted : 17 June 2020 08:44:35(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
John Murray

Originally Posted by: Holliday42333 Go to Quoted Post

Thw World Health Organisation now say that 3-ply medical masks do offer protection to the wearer.

https://www.who.int/emergencies/diseases/novel-coronavirus-2019/question-and-answers-hub/q-a-detail/q-a-on-covid-19-and-masks

Not sure how this has been derived considering airflow can be directed around the sides but perhaps it is because larger direct droplets will impact the mask.

Incidentally, the advice that N95 masks are not required comes largely from their lack of availability...and I'll refer people to the KN95 stories of recent past (I passed a guy in Aldi last week, wearing a full-face headpiece with attached battery-powered air pump....possible overkill?) (screwf** are now selling FFP3 masks in lots of 5 maximum)

Holliday42333  
#109 Posted : 17 June 2020 08:55:17(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Holliday42333

Originally Posted by: John Murray Go to Quoted Post

Incidentally, the advice that N95 masks are not required comes largely from their lack of availability...and I'll refer people to the KN95 stories of recent past (I passed a guy in Aldi last week, wearing a full-face headpiece with attached battery-powered air pump....possible overkill?) (screwf** are now selling FFP3 masks in lots of 5 maximum)

In the link the WHO also account for FFP masks as being appropriate for protection in healthcare enviroments of known Covid-19 contamination.

I would suspect the chance of a non-face fitted FFP3 mask from any (non-specialist) supplier being effective is about the same as a 3-ply surgical mask.  I've certainly seen bigger gaps around the edges of some FFP (type) masks being used in the general population than you typically get with surgical type masks.

Also worth mentioning that ALL Screwf** FFP3 masks are valved, so only protect the wearer (if correctly face fitted)

Edited by user 17 June 2020 09:24:33(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

thanks 1 user thanked Holliday42333 for this useful post.
CptBeaky on 17/06/2020(UTC)
Willh5080  
#110 Posted : 17 June 2020 09:14:51(UTC)
Rank: New forum user
Willh5080

Originally Posted by: John Murray Go to Quoted Post

"This study focussed on the effectiveness of surgical masks against a range of airborne particles. Using separate tests to measure levels of inert particles and live aerosolised influenza virus, our findings show that surgical masks provide around a 6-fold reduction in exposure. Live viruses could be detected in the air behind all surgical masks tested. By contrast, properly fitted respirators could provide at least a 100-fold reduction" https://www.hse.gov.uk/research/rrhtm/rr619.htm

Thanks for the info and article

John Murray  
#111 Posted : 17 June 2020 10:31:14(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
John Murray

"Also worth mentioning that ALL Screwf** FFP3 masks are valved, so only protect the wearer (if correctly face fitted) "

Why would I want to wear a mask that impedes my respiration, when the reason I wear it is to protect myself?

And in the local hospital, all level 2 PPE respirators are FFP3, with shrouded exhalation valve. Level 1 can be the usual surgical mask.

Kate  
#112 Posted : 17 June 2020 10:52:24(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Kate

I was upset today when I saw someone in the supermarket wearing a face covering (which the supermarket does not require) while going the wrong way round the one-way system the supermarket has attempted to implement. If you care enough to cover your face why don't you care enough to follow the rules of the shop?

thanks 3 users thanked Kate for this useful post.
chris42 on 17/06/2020(UTC), Sharpe23621 on 17/06/2020(UTC), Bigmac1 on 23/06/2020(UTC)
CptBeaky  
#113 Posted : 17 June 2020 11:15:47(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
CptBeaky

It seems that "as long as i am ok, everyone else can go jump" is endemic. That person probably thought (wrongly) they were protected, so what does it matter if the other people catch it.

thanks 1 user thanked CptBeaky for this useful post.
Kate on 17/06/2020(UTC)
John Murray  
#114 Posted : 17 June 2020 11:43:38(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
John Murray

"I was upset today when I saw someone in the supermarket wearing a face covering (which the supermarket does not require) while going the wrong way round the one-way system the supermarket has attempted to implement. If you care enough to cover your face why don't you care enough to follow the rules of the shop? "

I haven't noticed a shop which requires people to cover their faces. Even the pharmacies  around here do not require that. Nor does my GP. Nor the hospital clinics (the few still operating).

And since in the s/marts I use, even the staff (very noticably) do not respect the one-way signage, people are not doing so themselves. I expect the "you must cover your faces" rule/law on public transport will not last long, except for the Muslim women, who will doubtless still get grief. I noticed a picture on the web the other day, of a woman wearing a crochet "face covering".....I rest my case.

A Kurdziel  
#115 Posted : 17 June 2020 12:17:24(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
A Kurdziel

What I like (actually it makes me cross) are those people who wear a face mask-FFP3 with valve inside the supermarket and then as soon as they get out they light up a fag!

I know what they are going to die of and it’s not Covid 19!

Also why are people wearing gloves all of the time-answers on a postcard to NHS helpline PO Box SARS-2 

Heather Collins  
#116 Posted : 17 June 2020 13:38:41(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Heather Collins

Originally Posted by: A Kurdziel Go to Quoted Post

Also why are people wearing gloves all of the time-answers on a postcard to NHS helpline PO Box SARS-2 

Cos putting a mask and gloves on is like y'know protection innit?

Real answer - ignorance

thanks 1 user thanked Heather Collins for this useful post.
A Kurdziel on 17/06/2020(UTC)
Holliday42333  
#117 Posted : 17 June 2020 14:01:34(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Holliday42333

Originally Posted by: Heather Collins Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: A Kurdziel Go to Quoted Post

Also why are people wearing gloves all of the time-answers on a postcard to NHS helpline PO Box SARS-2 

Cos putting a mask and gloves on is like y'know protection innit?

Real answer - ignorance

Why be so quick to judge?  I wear gloves in supermarkets.  I know what the limitations are and I know how to use good glove managenent.

I wear them to more easily avoid cross contamination between goods, trolleys etc and the surfaces on and in my car.

Not everyone who wears gloves is ingorant of the protection they give in dynamic scenarios where cross-contamination is as much of an issue as direct contamination.

Oh, and I'm a habitual face toucher.  Wearing gloves is a constant reminder not to when I'm in situations where contaminated surfaces are a real risk.

Edited by user 17 June 2020 14:05:47(UTC)  | Reason: Additional text

Heather Collins  
#118 Posted : 17 June 2020 14:24:36(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Heather Collins

Originally Posted by: Holliday42333 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Heather Collins Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: A Kurdziel Go to Quoted Post

Also why are people wearing gloves all of the time-answers on a postcard to NHS helpline PO Box SARS-2 

Cos putting a mask and gloves on is like y'know protection innit?

Real answer - ignorance

Why be so quick to judge?  I wear gloves in supermarkets.  I know what the limitations are and I know how to use good glove managenent.

It's not about wearing them in supermarkets per se, it's wearing them as said above "all the time" and simply not understanding the cross contamination issue.  I've seen people wearing the same pair all round town and all they are doing is spreading contamination everywhere.  You clearly understand what you're doing and why so it doesn't apply in your case.  It's a bit like the people wearing their face mask only over their mouth - it's actually giving them a false sense of security and making them think they don't have to obey any of the other precautions like washing their hands or social distancing.

thanks 1 user thanked Heather Collins for this useful post.
CptBeaky on 18/06/2020(UTC)
chris.packham  
#119 Posted : 18 June 2020 08:59:26(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
chris.packham

Gloves are pretty good at transferring contamination, as the following demonstrates:

In a letter to the Journal of Hospital Infection (March 2010) the authors (Ludlam HA, Swayne RL, Kearns AM, Brown DFJ) listed 25 cases where MRSA had been transmitted from a source to a site from which infection could result.

Of these for 21 (84%) the vector was the gloved hands of the health care worker!

Ludlow HA, Swayne RL, Kearns AM et al, “Evidence from a UK teaching hospital that MRSA is primarily transmitted by the hands of healthcare workers”, Journal of Hospital Infection, 2010, 74, 266-270

Secondly, gloves worn for an extended period will cause damage to the skin due to the occlusion. This is not just sweat but what is called trans-epidermal water loss (TEWL). The hyperhydration has an adverse effect on the skin’s barrier function and can ultimately result in irritant contact dermatitis (hydration dermatitis). In the meantime it makes the skin more easily colonised by transient micro-organisms.

thanks 1 user thanked chris.packham for this useful post.
stevedm on 18/06/2020(UTC)
Roundtuit  
#120 Posted : 19 June 2020 10:08:50(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Roundtuit

This weeks RAPEX sees the emergence of masks claiming to be anti-bacterial/anti-microbial because they have for example silver treated fabrics.

Any product on the EU/UK market making such a claim should be authorised by an EU member state under the Biocidal Products Regulation even when sold by on-line retailers.

Roundtuit  
#121 Posted : 19 June 2020 10:08:50(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Roundtuit

This weeks RAPEX sees the emergence of masks claiming to be anti-bacterial/anti-microbial because they have for example silver treated fabrics.

Any product on the EU/UK market making such a claim should be authorised by an EU member state under the Biocidal Products Regulation even when sold by on-line retailers.

stevedm  
#122 Posted : 19 June 2020 11:40:10(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
stevedm

I would separate the non-compliance with EU Product regulations from the use of silver as it has and is used to reduce the advance of wound bacteria.....so the theory is sound the use is probably questionable...

https://bnf.nice.org.uk/wound-management/silver-dressings.html

Roundtuit  
#123 Posted : 19 June 2020 12:52:06(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Roundtuit

not questionable - illegal - just like all the other untested / non-approved fashion face coverings making similar claims based upon a material within their construction.

Roundtuit  
#124 Posted : 19 June 2020 12:52:06(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Roundtuit

not questionable - illegal - just like all the other untested / non-approved fashion face coverings making similar claims based upon a material within their construction.

stevedm  
#125 Posted : 19 June 2020 18:33:23(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
stevedm

Originally Posted by: Roundtuit Go to Quoted Post
not questionable - illegal - just like all the other untested / non-approved fashion face coverings making similar claims based upon a material within their construction.
Again you are cherry picking a response for effect....what I said was silver and it’s antibacterial properties which was what you scoffed at in your earlier post has been around for years in fact centuries ....the part that the face mask does not comply with eu standard doesn’t make the use of silver the bad guy here...read the full post in future and take it in without an aggressive view point you need to chill man :)
John Murray  
#126 Posted : 20 June 2020 09:04:20(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
John Murray

"According to 3M (source), the Chinese KN95 standard has an equivalent specification to N95/FFP2 respirators . To quote:

“It is reasonable to consider China KN95, AS/NZ P2, Korea 1st Class, and Japan DS FFRs as equivalent to US NIOSH N95 and European FFP2 respirators”

In practice the issue is more complex, and I wouldn’t take for granted that all KN95 respirators are up to the same standard"   https://fastlifehacks.com/n95-vs-ffp/#KN95_vs_N95

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