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AM1  
#1 Posted : 03 April 2020 09:50:01(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
AM1

Hi

It looks like the WHO and the UK government are discussing the relevance / benefits of the public now wearing face masks, which is a bit of a U turn on previous guidance.

Clearly there will not be enough to go around so just wondered in terms of usefulness what would you recommend people to wear if the guidance comes out saying this?

From surgical masks and N95 being the most relevant, and Donalds scarf being at the bottom............what's in between?

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Kim Hedges on 04/04/2020(UTC)
pdurkin  
#2 Posted : 03 April 2020 10:26:38(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
pdurkin

An interesting topic,I understood that surgical masks were used to protect the patient from the medic.

Hence are these now being recomended to stop ptential onfection spread from coughs & sneezes?

AM1  
#3 Posted : 03 April 2020 10:34:56(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
AM1

it is anticipated that the WHO will change their advice on public and workers wearing some facial PPE. If this happens i think the UK govt would then change theirs, which would impact on our risk assessment for workers who are still working. i would also expect the guidance to be quite wide in what people can wear over their mouth and nose as the availability of surgical masks would simply not be possible for everyone.........something is better than nothing - and Mr Trump's scarf comment did actually come from medical advice.

what would be your range of somethings?

A Kurdziel  
#4 Posted : 03 April 2020 11:05:21(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
A Kurdziel

There is no science behind this. The idea that people might use scarfs as there are not enough surgical masks is even more laughable.  What sort of scarfs, what should they be made of how dense the weave how should they be disinfected and how often?

Finally how will we enforce this: will we go around arresting people who are not wearing masks or the wrong masks?

In the Far East wearing a face mask is just what people do anyway. Half the Chinese students at my local University seem to wear masks all of the time, even before the outbreak. Wearing them did not seem to slow the outbreak in China.

 

Roundtuit  
#5 Posted : 03 April 2020 11:53:30(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Roundtuit

1) All the experts rolled in to the media to discuss masks always state "when correctly worn".

2) Members of this forum regularly debate facial hair with RPE - can you really see government edict demanding we are all clean shaven (still looking for responses to the Matter of Faith post about religious exemptions)?

3) How do you face fit the entire population when test  kit supplies are running low (see request for materials issued on behalf of NE hospitals)?

BTW - WHO are not directly discussing masks but evaluating laboratory based research that indicates droplets from coughs can travel 6m and from sneezes can travel 8m which exceeds current guidance.

Edited by user 03 April 2020 12:13:44(UTC)  | Reason: FFS

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A Kurdziel on 03/04/2020(UTC), A Kurdziel on 03/04/2020(UTC)
Roundtuit  
#6 Posted : 03 April 2020 11:53:30(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Roundtuit

1) All the experts rolled in to the media to discuss masks always state "when correctly worn".

2) Members of this forum regularly debate facial hair with RPE - can you really see government edict demanding we are all clean shaven (still looking for responses to the Matter of Faith post about religious exemptions)?

3) How do you face fit the entire population when test  kit supplies are running low (see request for materials issued on behalf of NE hospitals)?

BTW - WHO are not directly discussing masks but evaluating laboratory based research that indicates droplets from coughs can travel 6m and from sneezes can travel 8m which exceeds current guidance.

Edited by user 03 April 2020 12:13:44(UTC)  | Reason: FFS

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A Kurdziel on 03/04/2020(UTC), A Kurdziel on 03/04/2020(UTC)
Brian Hagyard  
#7 Posted : 03 April 2020 12:07:25(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Brian Hagyard

Read about the WHO potentialy doing this yesterday. Then found this article  which i found very interesting.

http://www.cidrap.umn.edu/news-perspective/2020/04/commentary-masks-all-covid-19-not-based-sound-data

It even talks about how lots of people in the chinease province where this started wear mask routinly.

Sorry about spelling lost spell check on my system at moment.

RVThompson  
#8 Posted : 03 April 2020 12:24:20(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
RVThompson

Having studied Microbiology some years ago, I've always believed that expecting a cloth mask, even an FFP3 type, to prevent viral infection would be akin to trying to catch a grain of sand with a fishing net.

A sample paper here: https://academic.oup.com/annweh/article/54/7/789/202744

I do, however, realise that some people seek assurance by using such masks, and that was my reasoning behind posting a response to a related debate.

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A Kurdziel on 03/04/2020(UTC), Bigmac1 on 06/04/2020(UTC)
Nathan Fuller  
#9 Posted : 03 April 2020 14:16:08(UTC)
Rank: New forum user
Nathan Fuller

Hello all! I have just joined and thought I would get stuck right in!

It is my understanding that the mask idea is following recent studies showing that a sneeze has the potential of travelling up to 8 metres and that the current guidelines of the 2 metres "social distancing" may not be enough!

As already mentioned, there just isn't enough masks to hand out, (even though our Government seems to be purchasing some from China!) what use are they, are they fitted correctly and are they adequate for the job intended, whatever that may be.

It seems to me that it is more of a response to the ridiculous few that can't cover their mouth when they cough or sneeze in an appropriate fashion!

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Kate on 03/04/2020(UTC)
biker1  
#10 Posted : 03 April 2020 14:34:28(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
biker1

I thought people in China, and elsewhere, routinely wore masks in towns because of the air pollution, not for protection against infections. I've seen them worn in this country in London for the same purpose. Presumably we are talking about different types of mask here.

It would certainly be true that they would be of limited use in the absence of a good face fit, which would exclude anyone with facial hair for whatever reason. You can make your own mask from suitable material, which I suppose would be better than nothing, and certainly better than that idiot Trump's scarf idea.

As has been commented on, if people exercised good hygiene practice when coughing or sneezing, I could see very little reason otherwise for wearing them unless in close contact with others, which of course they shouldn't be.

Just got stopped by the police when I was going for a prescription in town, first time this has happened, and I didn't mind at all. I would rather they were doing this than letting the idiots get away with selfish stupidity.

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webstar on 28/04/2020(UTC)
Roundtuit  
#11 Posted : 03 April 2020 16:28:31(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Roundtuit

Those studies are not recent - back when the first repatriation flights to the UK were arriving from Wuhan the transmission distance was being questioned in light of the coach drivers not wearing PPE.

BBC news were reporting this MIT research under a fact or myth back in January 2018!

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-42701590

Roundtuit  
#12 Posted : 03 April 2020 16:28:31(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Roundtuit

Those studies are not recent - back when the first repatriation flights to the UK were arriving from Wuhan the transmission distance was being questioned in light of the coach drivers not wearing PPE.

BBC news were reporting this MIT research under a fact or myth back in January 2018!

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-42701590

Kim Hedges  
#13 Posted : 04 April 2020 15:30:02(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Kim Hedges

Now wearing a mask is pretty pointless for the average member of the public, because it is more than likely that everyone has already been infected.  If you are coughing and sneezing, it could be allergies or a cold or something else, maybe even a normal flu, it is not likely to be covid19 as the reported symptoms are different.

Common sense appears to have been completely side stepped and ignored, if the virus is everywhere in all places, wearing a mask will not make you or anyone else any safer, the virus is already in you and everybody else and probably on most surfaces and clothing, a bit like all those other bacteria that live on our world.  So if you are likely to sneeze or cough, use a tissue or the crook of your arm.  Wash your hands and face often.  Wash your clothing.  This is thought why Japan has such few deaths, cleanliness, hand washing.   

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dgc837 on 06/04/2020(UTC)
spenny  
#14 Posted : 06 April 2020 09:45:53(UTC)
Rank: New forum user
spenny

The latest from GOV.UK on the wearing of masks:

'Use of face masks in the community There is very little evidence of widespread benefit from the use of face masks outside of the clinical or care settings, where they play a very important role. To be effective, face masks must be worn correctly, changed frequently, removed properly, disposed of safely and used in combination with good universal hygiene behaviour. Research shows that compliance with these recommended behaviours reduces over time when wearing face masks for prolonged periods, such as in the community. Therefore, PHE does not advise masks in public places and for those working in supermarkets, waste collection, schools and similar settings. PHE recommends that employers should ensure that:

  • spaces in the workplace are optimised to allow social distancing to occur, wherever possible
  • signs are visible in the workplace reminding employees not to attend work if they have a fever or cough and to avoid touching their eyes, nose and mouth with unwashed hands
  • employees are provided with hand sanitiser for frequent use and regular breaks to allow them to wash their hands for 20 seconds

The UK does not currently advise use of face masks outside of care settings, in line with PPE guidance. PHE will continually review guidance in line with emerging evidence and WHO views, and update our guidance if new evidence suggests that we should do so.'

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A Kurdziel  
#15 Posted : 06 April 2020 10:01:55(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
A Kurdziel

Gillian Tett wrote a piece for the FT- https://www.ft.com/content/d7057a2e-739d-11ea-95fe-fcd274e920ca which was  republished in the I on Saturday about the symbolism of the face mask and why although there is no real evidence that they work  it is seen as a symbol of solidarity in the face of  a common enemy.

And here is the I on why the UK government  does not support  wearing face masks https://inews.co.uk/news/health/coronavirus-why-uk-advice-face-masks-different-us-2529847

chris.packham  
#16 Posted : 06 April 2020 11:36:14(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
chris.packham

Perhaps one relevant point to consider. Face masks when the correct ones are worn correctly will only protect nose and mouth. As there is apparently evidence that COVID-19 can be introduced into the body through contact with the eyes should we not also be suggesting visors be worn in addition? Perhaps a motor cycle type crash helmet with the visor down anyone?

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Kim Hedges on 08/04/2020(UTC)
Bigmac1  
#17 Posted : 06 April 2020 14:28:28(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Bigmac1

Originally Posted by: chris.packham Go to Quoted Post

Perhaps one relevant point to consider. Face masks when the correct ones are worn correctly will only protect nose and mouth. As there is apparently evidence that COVID-19 can be introduced into the body through contact with the eyes should we not also be suggesting visors be worn in addition? Perhaps a motor cycle type crash helmet with the visor down anyone?

Or a full face respirator will also protect the eys and is reusable.
peter gotch  
#18 Posted : 06 April 2020 19:48:37(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
peter gotch

WHO guidance remains the same today - and is mirrored by guidance by national authorities.

In broad terms that says:

Presumption that "masks" are not needed by the public OR by those at work who shouldn't be in a situation where they are likely to be in close proximity to someone with symptoms of COVID-19, specifically fever and/or a new and persistent cough.

Avoid diverting disposable protective masks away from where they are most needed at the front line at a time when there are constraints on the global supply.

First line of defence remains social distancing - WHO states one metre or 3 feet. US has gone for 6 feet and the UK for 2m (but is mistranslating that as 6 feet rather than 6 feet 6 inches). This backed up by washing hands etc.

As regards Nathan's point, WHO and others looking at research which suggests that the viral aura emanating from someone coughing could spray out perhaps 2.4m (8 feet), thence considering whether recommended social distancing is sufficient.

However, at this point those in the know need to also consider what the epidemiologists call the dose-response relationship and it appears that insufficient information is yet available to assess how much the viral load impacts the risk.

In simple terms this is about thinking about how much COVID do you need to take in to be at significantly elevated risk. As it can multiply once in the body, only a few droplets could result in illness. But how much is the risk increased with a substantial increase in the original intake of the pathogen. 

So, when someone coughs the viral load is much higher close to the point of emission, ie within the one metre currently recommended as the minimum social distancing by WHO. At 2m that viral load is much reduced, so may well represent a much lower risk. I'm NOT a microbiologist so don't pretend to know the answer to how much the viral load impacts the overall risk! That's the conundrum but for now WHO is holding its ground.

CDC the Centers of Disease Control and Prevention has published new guidance suggesting that the use of cloth face coverings is recommended where social distancing is difficult to maintain e.g. in grocery stores and pharmacies.

However, where I live grocery stores and our local Boots seem to have got the social distancing reasonably well controlled. Thence the CDC advice would not apply.

There is the other problem. Anyone who isn't competent to don, use, remove and dispose of a disposable respirator (or cloth face covering) could be INCREASING the risk of exposure. This is why you see a medic coming out from the sharp end and a colleague in a clean area removing their respirator and disposing it (before then washing their hands). This reduces one important route of exposure for the person who has just exited the high risk zone.

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Bigmac1  
#19 Posted : 07 April 2020 09:14:20(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Bigmac1

Did anyone else find it a little disturbing that almost every single person on the BBC News article from within intensive care on last nights news were not wearing their RPE corrctly?

CGouveia  
#20 Posted : 07 April 2020 12:00:04(UTC)
Rank: New forum user
CGouveia

Hi can I ask for advice on what to do if someone wants to wear their own masks at work? I am concerned about letting them because the UK Gov does not advise their use in the community, and use can be linked to relaxed social distancing due to a false sense of security. Also, some other people get panicked by masks.

peter gotch  
#21 Posted : 07 April 2020 18:29:02(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
peter gotch

A bit of trawling on the internet suggests that the move by the US CDC to recommend the VOLUNTARY use of cloth face coverings by the public going e.g. to the grocery store or pharmacy IF it is difficult to maintain physical distancing of the US recommended 6 feet is based on the assumption that many people with COVID-19, BUT asymptomatic could spread the disease.

Thence, this recommendation appears to be about helping prevent the person wearing the cloth face covering from spreading the disease to someone else NOT about them not getting the disease.

The new guidance from CDC stresses that this is not intended as a substitute for physical distancing and also that the distribution of proper RPE should remain focused on those in high risk situations.

Roundtuit  
#22 Posted : 07 April 2020 21:53:52(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Roundtuit

You will need to expand upon what "work" is.

For example if it is a uniformed position then any "personal" addition could be contrary to contract, however if it is free wear then you need to consider any published dress code.

If someone wants to turn up at a customer facing role in a full "noddy" suit (nuclear, biological and chemical warfare) it is a bit extreme - bad enough the supermarket check out operators are moving behind perspex.

That said our local pharmacist and staff are wearing masks to service prescription dispensing (some staff members wearing their own masks) and I can fully appreciate such a course of action.

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Roundtuit  
#23 Posted : 07 April 2020 21:53:52(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Roundtuit

You will need to expand upon what "work" is.

For example if it is a uniformed position then any "personal" addition could be contrary to contract, however if it is free wear then you need to consider any published dress code.

If someone wants to turn up at a customer facing role in a full "noddy" suit (nuclear, biological and chemical warfare) it is a bit extreme - bad enough the supermarket check out operators are moving behind perspex.

That said our local pharmacist and staff are wearing masks to service prescription dispensing (some staff members wearing their own masks) and I can fully appreciate such a course of action.

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Kim Hedges on 08/04/2020(UTC), Kim Hedges on 08/04/2020(UTC)
Kim Hedges  
#24 Posted : 08 April 2020 14:45:32(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Kim Hedges

I seem to remember that if a mask gets wet (from breath or saliva) it no longer functions, I read on the W.H.O. website that cloth masks should not be used. 

Nobody has mentioned Autoclaves and reusing masks yet.  Will a mask survive the sterilisation process of using an Autoclave (130 degrees C for 15 minutes at negative pressure)?

Roundtuit  
#25 Posted : 08 April 2020 16:17:07(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Roundtuit

Given the nature of the materials of construction it is highly likely autoclaving would render most masks useless otherwise the penny pinchers would already have been doing it
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Roundtuit  
#26 Posted : 08 April 2020 16:17:07(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Roundtuit

Given the nature of the materials of construction it is highly likely autoclaving would render most masks useless otherwise the penny pinchers would already have been doing it
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peter gotch  
#27 Posted : 08 April 2020 16:32:07(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
peter gotch

As I understand it, most of the cloth face coverings of which designs are plentiful (including on the CDC website) might be put in the washing machine.

We are not talking about sophisticated technology + a lot of research and testing that the likes of 3M do.

Now how long the elastic bands or other strips of material (that would attach to the cloth face covering and hold in some sort of position on the head) on a home made bit of kit would last when being put in a domestic washing machine, who knows?

Depends somewhat on what sort of competence assessment you are going to do on the supplier of such kit! 

Bigmac1  
#28 Posted : 09 April 2020 10:40:19(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Bigmac1

Originally Posted by: Bigmac1 Go to Quoted Post

Did anyone else find it a little disturbing that almost every single person on the BBC News article from within intensive care on last nights news were not wearing their RPE corrctly?

Noone else bothered?

Kate  
#29 Posted : 09 April 2020 12:35:43(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Kate

I limit my exposure to the news as part of my personal mental health control measures, so I didn't see it.

Instead I have recorded "Inside the Pasty Factory" to watch this weekend.

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nic168 on 15/04/2020(UTC)
RVThompson  
#30 Posted : 09 April 2020 12:59:31(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
RVThompson

I aslo avoid the news for the very same reason.

Paul911  
#31 Posted : 09 April 2020 15:25:06(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Paul911

Hi all,

We are a retailer now offering employees masks with training etc. However, we are now considering enfocing the use of face masks for certain customer facing employees. I realise that this is not in accordance with PHE guidance etc and I do not see how we can enforce their use without any evidence of them actually being effective in a non clinical setting being first outlined in an RA?

My question is if we cannot demonstrate their benefit in an RA, can we still enforce their use?

Thoughts?

Kind regards

Paul

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Kim Hedges on 12/04/2020(UTC)
peter gotch  
#32 Posted : 09 April 2020 18:35:26(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
peter gotch

Paul, I think you have answered your own question.

If your risk assessment doesn't demonstrate that the use of masks would be on balance beneficial and thence reasonably practicable, then you would be on a hiding to nothing attempting to enforce their use.

Now, depending on your circumstances then it might be possible to make that justification, but you would have to demonstrate other things such as the impracticality of maintaining sufficient social/physical distancing, access to handwashing etc.

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peter gotch  
#33 Posted : 09 April 2020 18:40:41(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
peter gotch

Bigmac, to be honest I missed that one.

Just goes to show that if they are having difficulty in effectively implementing a package of PPE requirements in high risk medical settings, what chance for others?

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Kim Hedges on 12/04/2020(UTC)
Roundtuit  
#34 Posted : 09 April 2020 19:13:12(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Roundtuit

Paul911 (and others) Covid-19 has NOT re-written the rules regarding the heirarchy of control which remains UNCHANGED = PPE is the last resort of any sensible employer resting just above discipline.

We are meant to try everything else in response to an assessment deploying PPE as a last desperate measure.

In the supermarket today I heard the checkout operator explain to the supervisor that she was on the till rather than the customer service desk as her colleague has "claustraphobia" issues behind the recently installed screens.

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Roundtuit  
#35 Posted : 09 April 2020 19:13:12(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Roundtuit

Paul911 (and others) Covid-19 has NOT re-written the rules regarding the heirarchy of control which remains UNCHANGED = PPE is the last resort of any sensible employer resting just above discipline.

We are meant to try everything else in response to an assessment deploying PPE as a last desperate measure.

In the supermarket today I heard the checkout operator explain to the supervisor that she was on the till rather than the customer service desk as her colleague has "claustraphobia" issues behind the recently installed screens.

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pdurkin  
#36 Posted : 11 April 2020 11:29:23(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
pdurkin

Agree with the last post that PPE should be the 'LAST RESORT' however,in the Domiciliary care service where social distancing is inaplicable .As care may provided one to one,consequently other controls mat may be impossible to apply.Hence what to use? Requires a /change at every visit?,Particularly as if we presume every home we enter is infected?.

peter gotch  
#37 Posted : 11 April 2020 14:53:55(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
peter gotch

pdurkin - I guess from the wording of your posting that you are one of those people who visits lots of clients in their homes but what you do for each client could vary substantially.

So, for some social distancing might be a realistic first line of defence, for others not.

For some, it might be practical to defer a visit, though I recognise that often that might not be an option. 

But for some visits it might be possible to ask the client in advance whether they have the key symptoms cited by WHO, i.e. a fever AND/OR a new AND persistent cough. For some visits you might need to make that assessment on site, then decide whether to retreat or put on a lot of personal protective equipment, some of which would be a matter of routine, Coronavirus or not. 

But, if we treat single use disposable FFP3 respirators correctly - i.e. single use, then if we concluded that you needed to use a respirator for each and every visit to a client, that's a very large number of respirators (of a type where there is a global shortage) every day.

Ultimately, it's going to be about making proportionate decisions based on the level of risk that each client poses their carer, in a situation where it appears that the supply of the right PPE in the right quantitities in the UK is far from satisfactory.

When we have got through this, or at least the worst of it, the UK Government will find it difficult to resist a formal inquiry into why there was inadequate planning for a pandemic - something that has been on the Government strategic risk assessment for decades and predicted by many as something waiting to happen, but with the question of WHEN being impossible to answer.

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Kim Hedges on 11/05/2020(UTC)
firesafety101  
#38 Posted : 12 April 2020 15:13:57(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
firesafety101

1.  How long is Single Use and can a front line NHS worker wear a single use mask all day or does it need to be discarded/replaced after every visit to a different patient?

2.  As the responsibility to issue PPE belongs to the Employer why is the Government being criticised for the shortage.

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Kim Hedges on 11/05/2020(UTC)
peter gotch  
#39 Posted : 12 April 2020 17:40:38(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
peter gotch

Firesafety the answers, I think, to your QQ

1. My understanding is that the front line staff in places like intensive care cannot stay there for particularly long at a time, perhaps an hour max in full PPE. A single use mask would be removed and disposed of each time the user exits the front line.

There was the suggestion that perhaps some of those at the front line are "overusing PPE". If that means reusing a single use mask of other item of potentially contaminated PPE, then, that would be "overuse" but I suspect that was NOT the intended meaning of what the Cabinet Minister said.

2. First duty of a Government is to protect its people. If Govt fails to ensure adequate availability of PPE in a pandemic scenario, then Govt needs to answer the charge as to whether it has met that First duty.

Then, in addition, Government is the direct, indirect, or indirect indirect Employer of most of those at the front line. Many are employed directly by the NHS a Government Agency, or indirectly via contracts let by the NHS (and other Government Departments or Agencies). Others work for e.g. private care homes whose main source of income is generally directly or indirectly from Government or local authorities - income of the latter has been hard hit by Government cuts.

So, for multiple reasons questions are being asked as to why Government isn't taking sufficient action to make sure that enough PPE is getting to where it is needed NOW, not at some indeterminate time in the future.

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Roundtuit  
#40 Posted : 17 April 2020 10:24:03(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Roundtuit

It now appears Sadiq Khan is a mask expert quoting US CDC guidance as a reason to request everyone in London be required to wear a face covering in public.

Pity he didn't read the detail showing the relative ineffectivness of scarves and bandanas.

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Roundtuit  
#41 Posted : 17 April 2020 10:24:03(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Roundtuit

It now appears Sadiq Khan is a mask expert quoting US CDC guidance as a reason to request everyone in London be required to wear a face covering in public.

Pity he didn't read the detail showing the relative ineffectivness of scarves and bandanas.

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A Kurdziel  
#42 Posted : 17 April 2020 10:35:18(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
A Kurdziel

This is all biosafety theatre again: the powers that be feel helpless and so they indulge in things like suggesting face masks for all without really thinking what that means: what sort of mask, when do you change it, how do you wear it and who can decide if the face mask you are wearing is appropriate.

The Chinese seem obsessed with the things : see this piece from earlier on in outbreak https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/asia/coronavirus-china-doctors-zhongshan-hospital-nose-mask-health-workers-a9377856.html before they realised that it was coughing not sneezing that spread the virus.

 

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Kim Hedges on 11/05/2020(UTC)
gsgeek  
#43 Posted : 22 April 2020 20:52:06(UTC)
Rank: New forum user
gsgeek

face mask and wash hand regularly these two are only weapon which you need to fight with Coivd-19.  

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Kim Hedges on 11/05/2020(UTC)
Xavier123  
#44 Posted : 23 April 2020 08:37:27(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Xavier123

If the accepted science on masks were to change...and there is some good thinking out there about reduction in viral particle transmission generally having an impact, generally if not specifically... then there are other considerations as to why PHE and Gov advice might not change with it.

If you were advised to wear a mask, where will you get it from? Who will supply it? If everyone were suddenly to start buying them (even if not surgical masks etc. which might reduce supply to keyworkers) then this could be an effective health tax for those whom even a few extra pounds is not available. So, like Asia, supply would surely need to be managed centrally (and potentially through employers within the workplace??). I'm not convinced the current Government has a great track record on getting masks to those that need them in a timely fashion.

I'm also getting a little pedantically frustrated at describing general face masks as PPE. Who does it protect again?

thanks 6 users thanked Xavier123 for this useful post.
chris42 on 23/04/2020(UTC), A Kurdziel on 23/04/2020(UTC), Kate on 23/04/2020(UTC), Bigmac1 on 24/04/2020(UTC), Steve e ashton on 09/05/2020(UTC), Kim Hedges on 11/05/2020(UTC)
dgc837  
#45 Posted : 23 April 2020 08:59:31(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
dgc837

Like many things H&S very subjective. Great reading these posts and gaining further insight - thank-you. I guess for me the fact that individuals can unknowingly spread it is a tougher nut to crack and hopefully the increased testing will better indicate this.

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Kim Hedges on 11/05/2020(UTC)
AcornsConsult  
#46 Posted : 24 April 2020 07:00:48(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
AcornsConsult

Im sure we agree, not all masks are equal?   The TV was suggesting CV19 is small, about 10 thou of a mm, and for most masks, it will simply pass straight through.  AFAIR, the relevant hazardous particles during welding are about that size, and we know what the air fed filters look like for that.   Apart from medical standard masks, I really can't see the benefits medical masks to prevent inhaling the virus, although they may help prevent the sneeze spreading - lets just make sure we know why they are being worn.... to protect the user or protect others or just a fashion item!

thanks 4 users thanked AcornsConsult for this useful post.
A Kurdziel on 24/04/2020(UTC), Bigmac1 on 24/04/2020(UTC), Steve e ashton on 09/05/2020(UTC), Kim Hedges on 11/05/2020(UTC)
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