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RichC  
#1 Posted : 29 June 2020 11:34:47(UTC)
Rank: New forum user
RichC

I'm seeing various claims and promotions on use of fogging as an alternative to standard cleaning of office space using detergents etc as advocated by government guidance. Does anyone have any knowledge or experience of such systems / how effective are they? Is there any reliable scientific guidance available?

Roundtuit  
#2 Posted : 29 June 2020 12:05:51(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Roundtuit

Snake Oil salesmen.

For an office HM Gov guidance is suitable and sufficient.

thanks 2 users thanked Roundtuit for this useful post.
A Kurdziel on 29/06/2020(UTC), A Kurdziel on 29/06/2020(UTC)
Roundtuit  
#3 Posted : 29 June 2020 12:05:51(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Roundtuit

Snake Oil salesmen.

For an office HM Gov guidance is suitable and sufficient.

thanks 2 users thanked Roundtuit for this useful post.
A Kurdziel on 29/06/2020(UTC), A Kurdziel on 29/06/2020(UTC)
Mark-W  
#4 Posted : 29 June 2020 12:15:15(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Mark-W

SNAKEOIL

There is a company advertising on FB, when they are asked a question it goes to direct message rather than answering in the public domain. That tells me they have something to hide or their answer won't take scrutiny.

thanks 1 user thanked Mark-W for this useful post.
A Kurdziel on 29/06/2020(UTC)
Brian Hagyard  
#5 Posted : 29 June 2020 13:25:23(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Brian Hagyard

Im sick of being offered mirical preventions at the moment - like heat detection camers, fogging etc - cannot undertand with all this stuff avialable how anyone ever passed Covid 19 to anyone else in the 1st place! Whats the old saying "if it sound two good to be true.......)

A Kurdziel  
#6 Posted : 29 June 2020 13:31:47(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
A Kurdziel

Mentioned this on the forum a few weeks ago. Fogging is used in labs (eg CL3) and certain other facilities to disinfect them. The facilities are designed to be sealable and for example do not have any absorbent soft fittings. Several fumigants can be used, with formaldehyde being the most popular. It is very effective but it is also very toxic. If it is used then there is tendency to leave a deposit of paraformaldehyde on all of the surfaces, which needs to be washed away.  You also need some mechanism to remove any residual gas before you can renter the room.  

Hydrogen peroxide is safer to use as once it has been deposited it breaks down to form oxygen and water. It is very temperamental and needs very precise control of both temperature and humidity to be effective. If you are going to use it, you need to have some evidence that has worked.

Personally, given all of the faff associated with this I’d just stick to a normal deep clean in line with the government guidelines.   

Roundtuit  
#7 Posted : 29 June 2020 13:37:07(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Roundtuit

One company has a fogging system they claim is "certified" to BS EN 13697. When you dig deeper the active ingredient according to the named manufacturers web site has NOT been tested and verified for Covid.

Roundtuit  
#8 Posted : 29 June 2020 13:37:07(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Roundtuit

One company has a fogging system they claim is "certified" to BS EN 13697. When you dig deeper the active ingredient according to the named manufacturers web site has NOT been tested and verified for Covid.

John Murray  
#9 Posted : 29 June 2020 22:02:38(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
John Murray

Better remove the office electronics first...and turn the electricity off !

fogclean  
#10 Posted : 23 July 2020 17:37:40(UTC)
Rank: New forum user
fogclean

I have been doing research recently on fogging machines and efficacy.  Lots of new fogging businesses buying  hand held units and quoting specification of fog fluid as proof of efficacy.  Lots of stockists offering fogging machines and again quoting fluid specification as proof of efficacy.   The key is validation of both fog machine and fog fluid together..... on every clean.

 

I know a large bus company invested thousands on thermal foggers for each depot... I got in touch with the supplier as I was curious to the manufactures claims... 4,5,6-LOG kill etc they immediately said the thermal fogger does not have any 'efficacy testing' to back it up and offered to send me the safety data sheet for the fluid they sell... but also said I can use whatever fluid I want.  Big grey area between fogging machines and fog fluid and it works great for suppliers as they can just point you to safety data sheets. 

 

The only way you can validate is by having processes in place that test the efficacy and if they pass then stick to them.  You can read about biological indicators, chemical indicators, H2O2 data logging and ATP swabs at fogclean, https://fogclean.co.uk.  If you are buying fogging equipment or looking to hire someone it’s important to ask about efficacy and validation.....  It’s becoming very clear most business just box tick and don't care if the fogging is actually doing anything.

Roundtuit  
#11 Posted : 23 July 2020 18:27:55(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Roundtuit

REPORTED

your aims seem admirable however you have chosen to breach the forum rules you agreed to when signing up indicating your ability to research is not as thorough as your post claims

Lets be very clear Covid-19 is a new pathogen. No one has conducted sufficient examination of any engineering or chemical control to be able to make any market assertion.

We now have UV lamps being pulled from sale because they do not actually emit UV-C, just like we saw masks with no filtering efficiency and hand sanitiser with little or no alcohol.

Within the EU/UK we have the Biocidal Product Regulations - just because an active is on sale somewhere in the world does not mean it has Member State approval for use within the EU. I mention this as the "active" most of these fogging devices seem to rely upon is NOT approved (hence my comment about "snake oil").

Just watched another news report from the hospitality sector cleaning the room by fogging - if wafting a device in the air in the middle of a room is effective then so is taking skin temperature.

Dependent upon where you are from the expression is "as much use as a chocolate tea pot/fire guard"

thanks 6 users thanked Roundtuit for this useful post.
CptBeaky on 24/07/2020(UTC), Kate on 24/07/2020(UTC), peter gotch on 25/07/2020(UTC), CptBeaky on 24/07/2020(UTC), Kate on 24/07/2020(UTC), peter gotch on 25/07/2020(UTC)
Roundtuit  
#12 Posted : 23 July 2020 18:27:55(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Roundtuit

REPORTED

your aims seem admirable however you have chosen to breach the forum rules you agreed to when signing up indicating your ability to research is not as thorough as your post claims

Lets be very clear Covid-19 is a new pathogen. No one has conducted sufficient examination of any engineering or chemical control to be able to make any market assertion.

We now have UV lamps being pulled from sale because they do not actually emit UV-C, just like we saw masks with no filtering efficiency and hand sanitiser with little or no alcohol.

Within the EU/UK we have the Biocidal Product Regulations - just because an active is on sale somewhere in the world does not mean it has Member State approval for use within the EU. I mention this as the "active" most of these fogging devices seem to rely upon is NOT approved (hence my comment about "snake oil").

Just watched another news report from the hospitality sector cleaning the room by fogging - if wafting a device in the air in the middle of a room is effective then so is taking skin temperature.

Dependent upon where you are from the expression is "as much use as a chocolate tea pot/fire guard"

thanks 6 users thanked Roundtuit for this useful post.
CptBeaky on 24/07/2020(UTC), Kate on 24/07/2020(UTC), peter gotch on 25/07/2020(UTC), CptBeaky on 24/07/2020(UTC), Kate on 24/07/2020(UTC), peter gotch on 25/07/2020(UTC)
A Kurdziel  
#13 Posted : 24 July 2020 09:08:27(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
A Kurdziel

I think that the person promoting stuff was getting confused between “fogging” which usually refers to a chemical disinfectant that is being spread as a mist or fog and “steam cleaning” which rely on the action of hot water vapour (hence “you can use any liquid”) steam cleaning can be effective but you can’t really be certain that you are doing it right unless you have some way of validating it.  “When items cannot be cleaned using detergents or laundered, for example, upholstered furniture and mattresses, steam cleaning should be used”: which is from the government advice on cleaning in non-clinical settings.

Roundtuit  
#14 Posted : 26 July 2020 21:35:36(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Roundtuit

Nope this one is flogging Hydrogen Peroxide fogging - again I would appreciate any indication an EU member state (and in particular the UK) has approved this product used by this application method under BPR.

If the competent authority did not consider the product and its application it would be difficult to claim it is safe

Roundtuit  
#15 Posted : 26 July 2020 21:35:36(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Roundtuit

Nope this one is flogging Hydrogen Peroxide fogging - again I would appreciate any indication an EU member state (and in particular the UK) has approved this product used by this application method under BPR.

If the competent authority did not consider the product and its application it would be difficult to claim it is safe

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