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Gornall39895  
#1 Posted : 01 August 2020 12:54:32(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Gornall39895

I have never heard of this in over 20 years as a Safety and Health practitioner. We sometimes err on the side of caution under RIDDOR and we have all heard the term from the HSE over the years ' If in doubt report '

I have googled etc but can find no mention of overeporting

Has anyone else come across this ?

Edited by user 01 August 2020 12:56:51(UTC)  | Reason: Spelling and wording

peter gotch  
#2 Posted : 01 August 2020 13:01:24(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
peter gotch

I don't know exactly what the offence is but occasionally one hears of people being prosecuted for wasting Police time, so perhaps in theory there might be some possible similar offence of wasting HSE time.

But how else could one be prosecuted for doing something not required to be done.

Politics means that HSE would probably prefer as little overreporting as practical but in terms of their statistics, any overreporting will only redress a tiny fraction of the reportable incidents that are NOT reported.

When I worked for HSE we followed the policy of advising to report if in doubt.

I think your contact has dreamed this one up, or found some urban myth.

CORRECTION: Apologies - stupidly wrote "underreporting as practical" when obviously I meant the opposite! [and even repeated the mistake]

Edited by user 01 August 2020 19:17:45(UTC)  | Reason: Brain fuddle

thanks 1 user thanked peter gotch for this useful post.
A Kurdziel on 03/08/2020(UTC)
Gornall39895  
#3 Posted : 01 August 2020 18:16:44(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Gornall39895

Originally Posted by: peter gotch Go to Quoted Post

I don't know exactly what the offence is but occasionally one hears of people being prosecuted for wasting Police time, so perhaps in theory there might be some possible similar offence of wasting HSE time.

But how else could one be prosecuted for doing something not required to be done.

Politics means that HSE would probably prefer as little underreporting as practical but in terms of their statistics, any underreporting will only redress a tiny fraction of the reportable incidents that are NOT reported.

When I worked for HSE we followed the policy of advising to report if in doubt.

I think your contact has dreamed this one up, or found some urban myth.

Thats my thought as you say why would the HSE say if in doubt report they would all take overeporting than undereporting

Roundtuit  
#4 Posted : 01 August 2020 19:59:52(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Roundtuit

As with all such myths - "please identify the specific regulation under which this is required"

thanks 2 users thanked Roundtuit for this useful post.
A Kurdziel on 03/08/2020(UTC), A Kurdziel on 03/08/2020(UTC)
Roundtuit  
#5 Posted : 01 August 2020 19:59:52(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Roundtuit

As with all such myths - "please identify the specific regulation under which this is required"

thanks 2 users thanked Roundtuit for this useful post.
A Kurdziel on 03/08/2020(UTC), A Kurdziel on 03/08/2020(UTC)
Gornall39895  
#6 Posted : 01 August 2020 20:35:52(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Gornall39895

Originally Posted by: Roundtuit Go to Quoted Post

As with all such myths - "please identify the specific regulation under which this is required"


Exactly and I know its nonesence but it threw me a bit when the guy mentioned it as he is pretty switched on. I couldnt be bothered to challenge him on it but it grated on me so just thought I would post it on here

thanks 1 user thanked Gornall39895 for this useful post.
A Kurdziel on 03/08/2020(UTC)
Brian Hagyard  
#7 Posted : 03 August 2020 07:57:03(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Brian Hagyard

Total Rubbish - the only thing that might happen is the HSE/LA will visit to see what else you are doing wronge if such poor undertsanding of RIDDOR.

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A Kurdziel on 03/08/2020(UTC)
peter gotch  
#8 Posted : 03 August 2020 12:31:04(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
peter gotch

WHAT HSE/LA?

Cut to the bone over 10 years.

A Kurdziel  
#9 Posted : 03 August 2020 12:50:13(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
A Kurdziel

Wasting police time is an offence under Section 5(2) of the Criminal Law Act 1967 when someone knowingly makes TO ANY PERSON (not just the police) a false report" which:

  • Shows that a criminal offence has been committed,
  • Creates apprehension for the safety of any persons or property, or
  • Indicates that they have information material to any police inquiry.

Which means that if someone was to tell the HSE that a scaffolder  were for example not applying WAH  so putting people at risk and it turns out they were in fact complaint then an offence would be committed. Simply reporting something a RIDDOR will not come into this as (and I’ll say this again) a RIDDOR is not an admission of liability or culpability. A RIDDOR, by itself, doesn’t mean that any crime has taken place.

thanks 1 user thanked A Kurdziel for this useful post.
Kate on 03/08/2020(UTC)
Gornall39895  
#10 Posted : 03 August 2020 19:58:21(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Gornall39895

Originally Posted by: A Kurdziel Go to Quoted Post

Wasting police time is an offence under Section 5(2) of the Criminal Law Act 1967 when someone knowingly makes TO ANY PERSON (not just the police) a false report" which:

  • Shows that a criminal offence has been committed,
  • Creates apprehension for the safety of any persons or property, or
  • Indicates that they have information material to any police inquiry.

Which means that if someone was to tell the HSE that a scaffolder  were for example not applying WAH  so putting people at risk and it turns out they were in fact complaint then an offence would be committed. Simply reporting something a RIDDOR will not come into this as (and I’ll say this again) a RIDDOR is not an admission of liability or culpability. A RIDDOR, by itself, doesn’t mean that any crime has taken place.


Very well put

AcornsConsult  
#11 Posted : 04 August 2020 06:45:33(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
AcornsConsult

Originally Posted by: A Kurdziel Go to Quoted Post

Wasting police time is an offence under Section 5(2) of the Criminal Law Act 1967 when someone knowingly makes TO ANY PERSON (not just the police) a false report" which:

  • Shows that a criminal offence has been committed,
  • Creates apprehension for the safety of any persons or property, or
  • Indicates that they have information material to any police inquiry.

Which means that if someone was to tell the HSE that a scaffolder  were for example not applying WAH  so putting people at risk and it turns out they were in fact complaint then an offence would be committed. Simply reporting something a RIDDOR will not come into this as (and I’ll say this again) a RIDDOR is not an admission of liability or culpability. A RIDDOR, by itself, doesn’t mean that any crime has taken place.

it may waste the HSE time but it has not involved or wasted police time, so the offence does not apply.  There must be a police involvement and their time must be wasted, not sure how over reporting RIDDOR would include  a police involvement.    Even mis-reporting of our examples scaffolder may be malicious, may be vexatious but not a waste of police time.

Hsquared14  
#12 Posted : 05 August 2020 15:13:09(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Hsquared14

No - the RIDDOR regulations have no clause which attracts prosecution for being over zealous.  You might end up with them on your back for reporting stuff that is obviously not reportable but no they can't prosecute you for it.

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