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Kate  
#1 Posted : 25 September 2020 07:58:16(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Kate

Well, the government's Covid guidance for employers has now been updated (at last) and I noticed this:

"By law, from 28 September employers must not knowingly require or encourage someone who is being required to self-isolate to come to work"

Does anyone happen to know precisely what law this is or will be?

thanks 1 user thanked Kate for this useful post.
RVThompson on 25/09/2020(UTC)
peter gotch  
#2 Posted : 25 September 2020 10:00:54(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
peter gotch

Kate, becoming increasingly difficult to know what is law and what is guidance.

I looked on the legislation.gov.uk site and found something about Coronavirus coming into force on 28 September, but not what you refer to (though I did find the web guidance you mentioned!)

If law rather than guidance, I think it will be within the nation specific Regulations, so in England:

The Health Protection (Coronavirus, Restrictions) (England) (No X) Regulations 2020 where X is more than 3

OR

The Health Protection (Coronavirus, Restrictions) (England) (No Y) (Amendment) (No Z) Regulations 2020

Don't ask me to guess what Y and X might equal!

They are writing Statutory Instruments almost like confetti and it might be that these latest changes announced in Westminster have yet to be published on the legislation website. Possibly due to 40 day period usually given to Parliamentarians to object to secondary legislation, but much of the Covid stuff has been done under emergency powers where the usual 40 days don't apply.

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RVThompson on 25/09/2020(UTC), Kate on 25/09/2020(UTC)
A Kurdziel  
#3 Posted : 25 September 2020 11:43:01(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
A Kurdziel

They are still drafting it I think. It will be sprung on us at midnight 27th September 

thanks 3 users thanked A Kurdziel for this useful post.
RVThompson on 25/09/2020(UTC), George_Young on 25/09/2020(UTC), Kate on 25/09/2020(UTC)
John Murray  
#4 Posted : 27 September 2020 11:59:43(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
John Murray

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/working-safely-during-coronavirus-covid-19

Kate  
#5 Posted : 28 September 2020 07:43:18(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Kate

A Kurdziel was closer than I thought ...

The Health Protection (Coronavirus, Restrictions) (SelfIsolation) (England) Regulations 2020

Made - - - - at 5.00 p.m. on 27th September 2020

Laid before Parliament 28th September 2020

Coming into force - -at 12.00 a.m on 28th September 2020 

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2020/1045/contents/made

thanks 2 users thanked Kate for this useful post.
RVThompson on 28/09/2020(UTC), A Kurdziel on 28/09/2020(UTC)
A Kurdziel  
#6 Posted : 28 September 2020 08:50:36(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
A Kurdziel

In the Civil service we developed a type of telepathy which enabled us to know what politicians where thinking about. The politicians themselves had no idea what they were thinking about; all they did was react to shiny things passing in front of them.  

thanks 5 users thanked A Kurdziel for this useful post.
Kate on 28/09/2020(UTC), RVThompson on 28/09/2020(UTC), Yossarian on 28/09/2020(UTC), biker1 on 29/09/2020(UTC), nic168 on 01/10/2020(UTC)
peter gotch  
#7 Posted : 28 September 2020 11:52:20(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
peter gotch

Well found, Kate.

...and congratulations to AK for telepathy!

Legislation made in haste......

"This Statutory Instrument has been made in part in consequence of a defect in S.I. 2020/1005 and is being issued free of charge to all known recipients of that Statutory Instrument."

But it does come complete with the excuse for not bringing it to Parliament before it came into force.

P

Kate  
#8 Posted : 28 September 2020 12:51:25(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Kate

You mean this bit? 

"In accordance with section 45R of that Act the Secretary of State is of the opinion that, by reason of urgency, it is necessary to make this instrument without a draft having been laid before, and approved by a resolution of, each House of Parliament"

Hardly surprising that some MPs are becoming vocal about being left out of the legislative process.

I understand the need to pass legislation quickly, but in this case the timing is absurd.

HSSnail  
#9 Posted : 28 September 2020 13:51:49(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
HSSnail

some people think section 18 of HASAW give inspectors more power than the police (excluding arrest) but its nothing to what you can do Under Public Health legislation.

peter gotch  
#10 Posted : 28 September 2020 14:18:12(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
peter gotch

Yes Kate, but what that bit actually says is a little deceptive as Statutory Instruments do not usually get "approved by a resolution" by the Houses; more a case of not getting disapproval.

https://www.parliament.uk/site-information/glossary/negative-procedure/

So, usually the SI would be laid before the Houses and if Parliamentarians do not jump up and down, the SI comes into force (at least) 40 days later.

As example CDM 2015:

Right at the front of the Regulations  it says:

"Made 22nd January 2015

Laid before Parliament 29th January 2015

Coming into force 6th April 2015"

Giving each House over 40 days to make a fuss.

...and at the back of CDM before the Schedules it tells you who signed the Regulations:

"Signed by authority of the Secretary of State for Work and Pensions

                                                                                             Freud

                                                                                             Parliamentary Under Secretary of State

                                                                                             Department of Work and Pensions

22nd January 2015"

Kate  
#11 Posted : 28 September 2020 14:52:06(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Kate

Yes, that was what I learned at health and safety school ...

I suppose this is what they mean by the "new normal".

I heard a phrase the other day that summed this up: "the new new normal".  In other words, no sort of normal at all, just constant change, and good luck if you are trying to keep up with it.

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A Kurdziel on 29/09/2020(UTC)
Svick1984  
#12 Posted : 30 September 2020 06:08:53(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Svick1984

"2.—(1) This regulation applies where an adult is notified, other than by means of the NHS Covid 19 smartphone app developed and operated by the Secretary of State, by a person specified in paragraph (4) that—"

Are there different rules for self-isolation if you've been notified through the app, rather than any other way?

"(ii)had close contact after 28th September 2020 with someone who has tested positive for coronavirus"

What's people's definition of "close contact"? Less than 2 metres? Same room? Same building?

Svick1984  
#13 Posted : 30 September 2020 06:28:05(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Svick1984

Whoops, just read the close contact part, please ignore.

Kate  
#14 Posted : 30 September 2020 06:48:01(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Kate

Disobeying an app notification to self-isolate is not a criminal offence because

(a) they don't want to deter people from using the app 

(b) the personal data and notifications in the app are private so you can't prove someone has received such a notification and hence there is no prospect of enforcing it

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A Kurdziel on 30/09/2020(UTC)
Roundtuit  
#15 Posted : 30 September 2020 07:31:54(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Roundtuit

Says it all really "..developed and operated by the secretary of state.."

One thing did catch my attention in the Police debate - if their "business" mobile phones should not download the app because they do not have BlueTooth enabled how do they receive hands free calls when driving?

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A Kurdziel on 30/09/2020(UTC), A Kurdziel on 30/09/2020(UTC)
Roundtuit  
#16 Posted : 30 September 2020 07:31:54(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Roundtuit

Says it all really "..developed and operated by the secretary of state.."

One thing did catch my attention in the Police debate - if their "business" mobile phones should not download the app because they do not have BlueTooth enabled how do they receive hands free calls when driving?

thanks 2 users thanked Roundtuit for this useful post.
A Kurdziel on 30/09/2020(UTC), A Kurdziel on 30/09/2020(UTC)
Kate  
#17 Posted : 30 September 2020 07:59:57(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Kate

I now have a mental image of the hapless Secretary of State sitting at a computer developing and operating an app.

Thankyou ... I think ...

thanks 5 users thanked Kate for this useful post.
A Kurdziel on 30/09/2020(UTC), peter gotch on 30/09/2020(UTC), Roundtuit on 30/09/2020(UTC), chris42 on 01/10/2020(UTC), nic168 on 01/10/2020(UTC)
A Kurdziel  
#18 Posted : 30 September 2020 08:17:08(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
A Kurdziel

Originally Posted by: Kate Go to Quoted Post

I now have a mental image of the hapless Secretary of State sitting at a computer developing and operating an app.

Thankyou ... I think ...

I can see him agonising over the colour : it must be nice and soothing and pretty…

thanks 3 users thanked A Kurdziel for this useful post.
peter gotch on 30/09/2020(UTC), Roundtuit on 30/09/2020(UTC), chris42 on 01/10/2020(UTC)
Kate  
#19 Posted : 30 September 2020 12:14:24(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Kate

Mr Speaker isn't happy with the legal confetti:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-54352765

A Kurdziel  
#20 Posted : 30 September 2020 13:16:48(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
A Kurdziel

And was the nice compliant one that Boris and co wanted for the Speakers job!   

Kate  
#21 Posted : 30 September 2020 13:19:55(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Kate

Yes, imagine the complaints by and about the previous Mr Speaker had he still been in post!

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