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Alan Haynes  
#41 Posted : 23 February 2021 08:01:28(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Alan Haynes

I think the vaccination requirement to have a foreign holiday will not be for leaving the UK, but for entering some countr[es. Greece has been pushing for one to speed up letting people in for holidays. https://www.google.co.uk...israel-as-trial-run/amp/

Edited by user 23 February 2021 08:02:41(UTC)  | Reason: Typo

Holliday42333  
#42 Posted : 23 February 2021 08:46:45(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Holliday42333

Originally Posted by: SLord80 Go to Quoted Post
Which vaccines are currently compulsory for foreign travel? I’m just curious as I’ve had a quick search but struggling to find any.

I found lots of information quite quickly actually.  Most common is a requirement for a Yellow Fever vaccination.  Needing one depends both on the contry you are going to as well as the country you are comming from.  Otherwise a vaccination is just reccomended.

From an NHS Site "A yellow fever vaccine called Stamaril® is available to protect you against yellow fever. In addition, certain countries require you to produce a yellow fever certificate to enter the country. Please refer to the individual country pages for disease information and certificate requirements."

From a travel information site "Some of the countries that may require you to show a yellow fever certificate include Australia, India, Egypt, China, the Bahamas, Mexico and the Philippines."

SLord80  
#43 Posted : 23 February 2021 08:54:23(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
SLord80

Originally Posted by: Holliday42333 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: SLord80 Go to Quoted Post
Which vaccines are currently compulsory for foreign travel? I’m just curious as I’ve had a quick search but struggling to find any.
I found lots of information quite quickly actually. Most common is a requirement for a Yellow Fever vaccination. Needing one depends both on the contry you are going to as well as the country you are comming from. Otherwise a vaccination is just reccomended.From an NHS Site "Ayellow fever vaccinecalled Stamaril® is available to protect you against yellow fever. In addition, certain countries require you to produce a yellow fever certificate to enter the country. Please refer to the individualcountry pagesfor disease information and certificate requirements."From a travel information site "Some of the countries that may require you to show a yellow fever certificate include Australia, India, Egypt, China, the Bahamas, Mexico and the Philippines."
Yes I found that link of course, but I was looking for which vaccines are mandatory if I wish to go to a country. I can’t find any, can you? The countries you listed don’t seem to mandate them for travellers from England, from what I can see? And certainly having been to a couple of the countries on the list, I wasn’t required to show any proof of vaccination. So no evidence of mandatory vaccines?
Holliday42333  
#44 Posted : 23 February 2021 09:00:17(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Holliday42333

Originally Posted by: SLord80 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Holliday42333 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: SLord80 Go to Quoted Post
Which vaccines are currently compulsory for foreign travel? I’m just curious as I’ve had a quick search but struggling to find any.
I found lots of information quite quickly actually. Most common is a requirement for a Yellow Fever vaccination. Needing one depends both on the contry you are going to as well as the country you are comming from. Otherwise a vaccination is just reccomended.From an NHS Site "Ayellow fever vaccinecalled Stamaril® is available to protect you against yellow fever. In addition, certain countries require you to produce a yellow fever certificate to enter the country. Please refer to the individualcountry pagesfor disease information and certificate requirements."From a travel information site "Some of the countries that may require you to show a yellow fever certificate include Australia, India, Egypt, China, the Bahamas, Mexico and the Philippines."

Yes I found that link of course, but I was looking for which vaccines are mandatory if I wish to go to a country. I can’t find any, can you? The countries you listed don’t seem to mandate them for travellers from England, from what I can see? And certainly having been to a couple of the countries on the list, I wasn’t required to show any proof of vaccination. So no evidence of mandatory vaccines?

Plenty of evidence for mandatory vaccines in a global context.

I'm not sure what point you are trying to make.

CptBeaky  
#45 Posted : 23 February 2021 09:05:26(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
CptBeaky

I thought that Saudi Arabia requires proof of vaccination against certain types of meningits for visitors arriving for the Hajj and Umrah pilgrimages. Proof would suggest mandatory.

SLord80  
#46 Posted : 23 February 2021 12:33:05(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
SLord80

Originally Posted by: Holliday42333 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: SLord80 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Holliday42333 <img src="/Themes/iosh2/icon_latest_reply.gif" title="Go to Quoted Post" alt="Go to Quoted Post">Originally Posted by: SLord80 <img src="/Themes/iosh2/icon_latest_reply.gif" title="Go to Quoted Post" alt="Go to Quoted Post">Which vaccines are currently compulsory for foreign travel? I’m just curious as I’ve had a quick search but struggling to find any. I found lots of information quite quickly actually. Most common is a requirement for a Yellow Fever vaccination. Needing one depends both on the contry you are going to as well as the country you are comming from. Otherwise a vaccination is just reccomended.From an NHS Site "Ayellow fever vaccinecalled Stamaril® is available to protect you against yellow fever. In addition, certain countries require you to produce a yellow fever certificate to enter the country. Please refer to the individualcountry pagesfor disease information and certificate requirements."From a travel information site "Some of the countries that may require you to show a yellow fever certificate include Australia, India, Egypt, China, the Bahamas, Mexico and the Philippines." Yes I found that link of course, but I was looking for which vaccines are mandatory if I wish to go to a country. I can’t find any, can you? The countries you listed don’t seem to mandate them for travellers from England, from what I can see? And certainly having been to a couple of the countries on the list, I wasn’t required to show any proof of vaccination. So no evidence of mandatory vaccines?
Plenty of evidence for mandatory vaccines in a global context.I'm not sure what point you are trying to make.
The point is that an unlicensed vaccine is looking likely to be made mandatory, for which there seems to be no logical reason for doing so as the current evidence shows it only protects the person themselves. It will be interesting to see how the first case plays out in court. I feel like there can only be 1 outcome but nothing surprises me these days. Uptake amongst healthcare professionals currently stand at around 70% according to the government. Which makes sense considering the drastic outcome for many NHS staff during the vaccination throughout Sars cov 1. More coercion by Chris Whitty telling doctors they have a responsibility to get vaccinated.
CptBeaky  
#47 Posted : 23 February 2021 12:58:39(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
CptBeaky

Unlicensed is not relevant, since it has been tested, and is still undergoing mass scrutiny.

Recent studies sure it reduces transmission . Therefore it does protect other people. Although this has yet to be peer reviewed. However it looks promising.

The vaccines reduce hospitalisation and death by 85% (pfizer) and 94% (AZ), this will free up resources to help other people, thus reducing excess deaths in other areas, and increasing resources for mental health. Also this will allow the economy to re-open which a lot of people seem to be very keen on. For reference currently we have 18,462 people in hospital with COVID-19, this would be roughly 1,846 if the population was completely vaccinated.

Not sure how it can be argued that it only protects the person having the vaccine. When you take all of this into account it is not that surpring that some businesses want to make them mandatory, since it will reduce sick days and will reduce the risk of it spreadin in the workforce.

All that being said, it should still be optional. But the choice should be based on facts, not mis-information

thanks 1 user thanked CptBeaky for this useful post.
A Kurdziel on 23/02/2021(UTC)
John Murray  
#48 Posted : 23 February 2021 15:10:20(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
John Murray

If that making-vaccinations-mandatory is legislated, it opens the door for a whole range of workplace vaccinations, of which covid is just one. Since evidence, so far, is that vaccination only reduces the chance of illness becoming serious enough for hospitalisation to be needed. So far we have only had that plumber pr** in London saying all employees will have to be vaccinated, but plenty more are waiting in-the-wings. Still waiting for evidencial confirmation that vaccination reduces the viral load enough for the person vaccinmated to be unable to pass the infection to others. the New England Journal of Medicine has an interesting paper out...ish...

https://www.nejm.org/doi/pdf/10.1056/NEJMc2036242?articleTools=true

AND .. I got another letter from the headbangers in London (govt) saying that EVEN THOUGH I HAVE HAD THE VACCINE, I should follow the rules and not go out too far, wash my hands repeatedly (what's remaining of them) and not get too close to anyone. Letter valid until 31st March. Another will follow around then advising the same, probably until the date of my funeral.

All because the PTB did not follow expert advice back at the start of last year, and are STILL not following that same advice, which has been updated. This country could save a fortune by not hiring/paying experts, and just enlisting the bar drunk from down the road....when they open them again.

Anyway, until Lockdown IV: Boris Rides Out, the sequel

thanks 1 user thanked John Murray for this useful post.
biker1 on 23/02/2021(UTC)
biker1  
#49 Posted : 23 February 2021 16:41:49(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
biker1

I sympathise John. My wife has had a similar letter today that she needs to shield until the end of March. Good to see that they're on the ball, a year down the line (not).

CptBeaky  
#50 Posted : 25 February 2021 10:02:12(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
CptBeaky

The regional government of Galicia, a region in northwestern Spain, has announced plans to make COVID-19 vaccination mandatory for all of its 2.7 million inhabitants, threatening hefty fines for “unjustified” refusal to be inoculated.

Meanwhile in a recent survey 56% of UK residents (over 1,000 surveyed) said that the vaccine should be mandatory. It looks like those of us here saying they shouldn't be are a minority!

thanks 1 user thanked CptBeaky for this useful post.
biker1 on 25/02/2021(UTC)
biker1  
#51 Posted : 25 February 2021 10:30:05(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
biker1

I think this will be an argument that rumbles on. There is an intuitive argument for mandatory vaccination to protect society, but on the other hand there is an obstacle regarding medical ethics, since it is essentially an invasive procedure, which therefore needs patient consent. I see that the lawyers have got involved, so here comes months of legal arguments. My own view is that unless you have a valid medical reason for not getting the vaccination, there is a compelling argument for it to be mandatory. The situation we are in with the pandemic is unprecedented in living memory, so all bets are off.

Roundtuit  
#52 Posted : 25 February 2021 10:40:09(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Roundtuit

Spain was an earlier adopter of "Presumed Consent" for organ donation. A country controlled for many decades by General Franco a dictator who set a lot of their legislative practices in to place.

Israel is reported to have published a new law allowing the name and contact details of those who are not innoculated to be distributed. What was that saying about failing to learn from history?

Interstingly in the debate about a vaccination passport one reporter reminded us of the backlash against a certain T Blair when he tried to push through a National Identity Card - there but in name.

"It could be added to the NHS app" EXCEPT not everyone has a smartphone, has the app or wants to risk the loss of private data through device theft - politicians need to get ther heads and ideas out of the mire that is Social Media.

Roundtuit  
#53 Posted : 25 February 2021 10:40:09(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Roundtuit

Spain was an earlier adopter of "Presumed Consent" for organ donation. A country controlled for many decades by General Franco a dictator who set a lot of their legislative practices in to place.

Israel is reported to have published a new law allowing the name and contact details of those who are not innoculated to be distributed. What was that saying about failing to learn from history?

Interstingly in the debate about a vaccination passport one reporter reminded us of the backlash against a certain T Blair when he tried to push through a National Identity Card - there but in name.

"It could be added to the NHS app" EXCEPT not everyone has a smartphone, has the app or wants to risk the loss of private data through device theft - politicians need to get ther heads and ideas out of the mire that is Social Media.

N Hancock  
#54 Posted : 25 February 2021 11:20:12(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
N Hancock

Lets be clear what Israel is doing, implementing apartheid. Do we want a two class society here ?

So all these people who wont be able to work and have a life in the future, what next ? Ghettos ?

N Hancock  
#55 Posted : 25 February 2021 11:26:55(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
N Hancock

Originally Posted by: CptBeaky Go to Quoted Post

The regional government of Galicia, a region in northwestern Spain, has announced plans to make COVID-19 vaccination mandatory for all of its 2.7 million inhabitants, threatening hefty fines for “unjustified” refusal to be inoculated.

Meanwhile in a recent survey 56% of UK residents (over 1,000 surveyed) said that the vaccine should be mandatory. It looks like those of us here saying they shouldn't be are a minority!

Who did they ask ? For every poll that says that there will be one which says the oppsotite.  Do we not own our bodies in 2021.  I will not be taking the vaccine this year, I will until longer effects are known.  I will no doubt have to pay a heavy price for my 'free choice'.

CptBeaky  
#56 Posted : 25 February 2021 11:51:33(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
CptBeaky

Quote:

Who did they ask?

"a base sample of 1,000+ adults in .... between 16-74 in the United Kingdom, The samples in ... the U.K. can be taken as representative of the general adult population in these countries under the age of 75."

67% strongly agree that "If a COVID-19 vaccine was available to me, I would get it", along with 22% that somewhat agree. Suggesting that uptake is likely to be around 89%. This is the highest of the 15 countries surveyed, and is very encouraging.

At this level we would be well above the herd immunity levels required, so that those few that cannot/will not take it are still protected. I think this shows why mandatory vaccines may not even be necessary here. I think if the uptake is especially low the converstion would have to be very different. My biggest concern is that people will not get the second jab, for various reasons.

thanks 1 user thanked CptBeaky for this useful post.
biker1 on 25/02/2021(UTC)
Roundtuit  
#57 Posted : 25 February 2021 11:58:06(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Roundtuit

Originally Posted by: N Hancock Go to Quoted Post
Do they want a two class society here ? So all these people who wont be able to work and have a life in the future, what next ? Ghettos ?

Already present & correct along with a huge concrete wall that DJT was very jealous of.

Roundtuit  
#58 Posted : 25 February 2021 11:58:06(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Roundtuit

Originally Posted by: N Hancock Go to Quoted Post
Do they want a two class society here ? So all these people who wont be able to work and have a life in the future, what next ? Ghettos ?

Already present & correct along with a huge concrete wall that DJT was very jealous of.

biker1  
#59 Posted : 25 February 2021 12:11:43(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
biker1

Originally Posted by: N Hancock Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: CptBeaky Go to Quoted Post

The regional government of Galicia, a region in northwestern Spain, has announced plans to make COVID-19 vaccination mandatory for all of its 2.7 million inhabitants, threatening hefty fines for “unjustified” refusal to be inoculated.

Meanwhile in a recent survey 56% of UK residents (over 1,000 surveyed) said that the vaccine should be mandatory. It looks like those of us here saying they shouldn't be are a minority!

Who did they ask ? For every poll that says that there will be one which says the oppsotite.  Do we not own our bodies in 2021.  I will not be taking the vaccine this year, I will until longer effects are known.  I will no doubt have to pay a heavy price for my 'free choice'.

The problem is that other people might have to pay a heavy price for your free choice, but there you go.
thanks 2 users thanked biker1 for this useful post.
Alan Haynes on 25/02/2021(UTC), CptBeaky on 25/02/2021(UTC)
Alan Haynes  
#60 Posted : 25 February 2021 12:14:10(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Alan Haynes

I recognise this in an emotive matter, but ........

I see very little wrong in requiring that NEW employees be vaccinated, if that's what an employer wants - as long as those with certificated medical reasons [but not personal whim] are exempted from the requirement.

Obviously, I would have a [legal] problem with an employer imposing the requirement on existing employees, however, I can forsee a goverment imposing the requirement in the Health and Care sector, but hopefully with a log enough lead time for 'non-takers to sort out alternatives, including transfer to non public facing positions.

I am now at the age [dotage?] when my daughter says "Don't worry about getting too old, when it happens I'll find a nice cheap Care Home for you to go to".  I think she is joking, but I would [will?] be asking whether the care home staff are vaccinated, before going into any such place.

Similarly, if I was still recruiting staff, I would ask the question.  The answer would be included in my considerations.

As someone who has spent the last year shielding, my opinion of anti-vaxers and the "I'll wait to see what happens" and the "Only if I can choose which vaccine" people is unfortunately not repeatable on a public forum.

----------------------

As an aside - a couple of years ago, when on holiday in Italy I saw a 'Proclamation' from the Italian authorities in Lombardia [and possibly nationwide] that required that studends attending schools to be vaccinated against measles [I think it was measles].  Students not vaccinated were to be sent home.  Those below about 11 yrs would have to be home schooled, and older student's parents would  also face significant continuing fines for each child not attending school.  Not sure how it worked out, but it does provide a pointer on how Covid vaccinations may progress.

Anyway - had my first jab 3 weeks ago - never seen so many smiling faces in one place for a very long time.  Next one due 21st April at 11.45pm.  And I fully expect to have an annual booster, like the flu jab.

Edited by user 25 February 2021 12:27:52(UTC)  | Reason: typos

thanks 2 users thanked Alan Haynes for this useful post.
CptBeaky on 25/02/2021(UTC), biker1 on 25/02/2021(UTC)
N Hancock  
#61 Posted : 25 February 2021 12:37:56(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
N Hancock

Originally Posted by: biker1 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: N Hancock Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: CptBeaky Go to Quoted Post

The regional government of Galicia, a region in northwestern Spain, has announced plans to make COVID-19 vaccination mandatory for all of its 2.7 million inhabitants, threatening hefty fines for “unjustified” refusal to be inoculated.

Meanwhile in a recent survey 56% of UK residents (over 1,000 surveyed) said that the vaccine should be mandatory. It looks like those of us here saying they shouldn't be are a minority!

Who did they ask ? For every poll that says that there will be one which says the oppsotite.  Do we not own our bodies in 2021.  I will not be taking the vaccine this year, I will until longer effects are known.  I will no doubt have to pay a heavy price for my 'free choice'.

The problem is that other people might have to pay a heavy price for your free choice, but there you go.

A) I dont care

B) So why is it a choice ? a choice should be free of punishment ??

And when no ones employs the unvaccinated what then ?  Answer that .. Do we go on the dole or what ?

CptBeaky  
#62 Posted : 25 February 2021 12:55:26(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
CptBeaky

To be honest, I am not sure I would want to employ someone that doesn't care when their actions could negatively impact someone elses health. Choices are rarely consequence free, I don't see why this choice should be any different. The idea that "choice should be free of punishment" is naive. Many choices people make will negatively impact their lives. Getting a face tattoo of the queen having a poo is legal, but don't expect to have the same chance of being employed if you make that choice.

Maybe the answer is  people that refuse (as opposed to cannot have) the vaccine should be asked to continue with the other control measures until we are ready to face a world in which COVID is a controlled part of life. But considering those against vaccines also tend to be the ones against masks, lockdowns and other measures I, for one, cannot see how these people expect us to move forward.

Vaccines should be optional, but protecting society shouldn't be up for debate. If you refuse the vaccine I would fully expect you to continue with mask wearing, social distancing and avoiding crowded spaces for the foreseeable future, voluntarily.

Roundtuit  
#63 Posted : 25 February 2021 13:10:41(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Roundtuit

Every dictator is merely protecting their society even if that involves gassing, clubbing and incarceration of individuals - after all it is the society they control which matters.

Roundtuit  
#64 Posted : 25 February 2021 13:10:41(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Roundtuit

Every dictator is merely protecting their society even if that involves gassing, clubbing and incarceration of individuals - after all it is the society they control which matters.

N Hancock  
#65 Posted : 25 February 2021 13:14:14(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
N Hancock

Originally Posted by: CptBeaky Go to Quoted Post

To be honest, I am not sure I would want to employ someone that doesn't care when their actions could negatively impact someone elses health. Choices are rarely consequence free, I don't see why this choice should be any different. The idea that "choice should be free of punishment" is naive. Many choices people make will negatively impact their lives. Getting a face tattoo of the queen having a poo is legal, but don't expect to have the same chance of being employed if you make that choice.

Maybe the answer is  people that refuse (as opposed to cannot have) the vaccine should be asked to continue with the other control measures until we are ready to face a world in which COVID is a controlled part of life. But considering those against vaccines also tend to be the ones against masks, lockdowns and other measures I, for one, cannot see how these people expect us to move forward.

Vaccines should be optional, but protecting society shouldn't be up for debate. If you refuse the vaccine I would fully expect you to continue with mask wearing, social distancing and avoiding crowded spaces for the foreseeable future, voluntarily.

Why when a vaccinated person can still get covid? (I know of 2, who have had both jabs now positive).  I do agree though with some of your points as I see some covid measures for what they are, absolute nonsense and I simply would not / don't comply.

But the fact remains, if there is vaccination choice in this so called free country it should not prevent living and working for most (foreign travel is another thing entirely).  

 

John Murray  
#66 Posted : 25 February 2021 13:17:41(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
John Murray

Originally Posted by: CptBeaky Go to Quoted Post

67% strongly agree that "If a COVID-19 vaccine was available to me, I would get it", along with 22% that somewhat agree. Suggesting that uptake is likely to be around 89%. This is the highest of the 15 countries surveyed, and is very encouraging.

Vaccine uptake in the BAME community is around 57%.

Since a high percentage of the care-homes-staff are from that community, I see problems (locally, there are already problems with some staff refusing the vaccine) (since they're part-time workers, their work time has been reduced to zero hours)

The herd-immunity percentage, in light of mutant variations is supposedly around 80%.

Vaccine effectiveness is around 72% after 21 days with both vaccines, and the period of time being lengthened between injections seems to make little difference, with effectiveness after second injection being 90%+ (100% for reduction of serious illness)

John Murray  
#67 Posted : 25 February 2021 13:22:51(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
John Murray

"Do we not own our bodies in 2021.  I will not be taking the vaccine this year, I will until longer effects are known.  I will no doubt have to pay a heavy price for my 'free choice' "

That's your choice.

How long will you wait?  Some long-term effects are not known for decades! Some [others] may pay the ultimate penalty for your free choice.

N Hancock  
#68 Posted : 25 February 2021 13:39:55(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
N Hancock

Originally Posted by: John Murray Go to Quoted Post

"Do we not own our bodies in 2021.  I will not be taking the vaccine this year, I will until longer effects are known.  I will no doubt have to pay a heavy price for my 'free choice' "

That's your choice.

How long will you wait?  Some long-term effects are not known for decades! Some [others] may pay the ultimate penalty for your free choice.

I will have it when I feel comfortable with it, not because of coercion and vaccine apartheid. It maybe next year, 5 years, who knows.  Please note ive had all my other vacs.

I am not concerned with those who may the price, it’s my health I am worried about. Likewise, you don’t value my right to choose something which isn’t mandatory so why should I care ?

biker1  
#69 Posted : 25 February 2021 13:51:28(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
biker1

Originally Posted by: N Hancock Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: biker1 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: N Hancock Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: CptBeaky Go to Quoted Post

The regional government of Galicia, a region in northwestern Spain, has announced plans to make COVID-19 vaccination mandatory for all of its 2.7 million inhabitants, threatening hefty fines for “unjustified” refusal to be inoculated.

Meanwhile in a recent survey 56% of UK residents (over 1,000 surveyed) said that the vaccine should be mandatory. It looks like those of us here saying they shouldn't be are a minority!

Who did they ask ? For every poll that says that there will be one which says the oppsotite.  Do we not own our bodies in 2021.  I will not be taking the vaccine this year, I will until longer effects are known.  I will no doubt have to pay a heavy price for my 'free choice'.

The problem is that other people might have to pay a heavy price for your free choice, but there you go.

A) I dont care

B) So why is it a choice ? a choice should be free of punishment ??

And when no ones employs the unvaccinated what then ?  Answer that .. Do we go on the dole or what ?

Your answer to A makes me wonder if you work in health and safety, and if so, why.
N Hancock  
#70 Posted : 25 February 2021 14:22:33(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
N Hancock

Originally Posted by: biker1 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: N Hancock Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: biker1 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: N Hancock Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: CptBeaky Go to Quoted Post

The regional government of Galicia, a region in northwestern Spain, has announced plans to make COVID-19 vaccination mandatory for all of its 2.7 million inhabitants, threatening hefty fines for “unjustified” refusal to be inoculated.

Meanwhile in a recent survey 56% of UK residents (over 1,000 surveyed) said that the vaccine should be mandatory. It looks like those of us here saying they shouldn't be are a minority!

Who did they ask ? For every poll that says that there will be one which says the oppsotite.  Do we not own our bodies in 2021.  I will not be taking the vaccine this year, I will until longer effects are known.  I will no doubt have to pay a heavy price for my 'free choice'.

The problem is that other people might have to pay a heavy price for your free choice, but there you go.

A) I dont care

B) So why is it a choice ? a choice should be free of punishment ??

And when no ones employs the unvaccinated what then ?  Answer that .. Do we go on the dole or what ?

Your answer to A makes me wonder if you work in health and safety, and if so, why.

Yes, I have worked in the field since 2006, educated to BSc (Hons) & MSc in the subject before that. CMIOSH since 2016.

Public Health (and my health) though is a different matter.

biker1  
#71 Posted : 25 February 2021 16:24:03(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
biker1

Without pointing the finger, I think those who, without a valid medical reason, take the standpoint of refusing the vaccine have missed the point somewhere along the line. That famous pop group leader with attitude, Liam Gallagher, went on record that he would not be wearing a mask etc, and if he got COVID, it would be 'on him'. Well no, sunshine, it will be also be on everyone else who comes into contact with you. Vaccination, face masks, hand washing/sanitising, social distancing are all parts of the measures to contain the spread of the virus, and eventually control it.

It is worth noting that the incidence of colds, flu, and even Sepsis have reduced significantly as a side effect of the precautions for COVID. Masks and hand sanitising have helped to reduce common infections. As for vaccination, I have had the flu jab for many years, not just because I don't want flu, but to avoid getting it and passing it on to my wife, who is vulnerable. I will adopt the same philosophy with regards to COVID vaccinations. Thankfully, I didn't get a reaction to the first vaccination recently, but even if I did, it would not deter me from having the second, and any further, vaccination. A temporary reaction is a small price to pay to help protect other peoples' lives. It's a shame that there are people who don't think like this, and instead think up excuses for not being vaccinated.

thanks 1 user thanked biker1 for this useful post.
Alan Haynes on 25/02/2021(UTC)
Roundtuit  
#72 Posted : 25 February 2021 20:01:25(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Roundtuit

Why should I need a valid medical reason to exercise my right not to have an invasive procedure conducted upon my person? You may have been under MO's orders during your army days, that service being for "Queen, Country and ...... permitting our right to say NO!"

Personally I am awaiting my call up to be jabbed.

As an ex-smoker of forty years I choose not to be one of those lecturing others about their choices or espousing the "greater good". The latter is normally a call to arms of the vocal minority as recently demonstrated by a French Mayor banning meat from school dinners (sure Cpt Beaky would like that one).

Roundtuit  
#73 Posted : 25 February 2021 20:01:25(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Roundtuit

Why should I need a valid medical reason to exercise my right not to have an invasive procedure conducted upon my person? You may have been under MO's orders during your army days, that service being for "Queen, Country and ...... permitting our right to say NO!"

Personally I am awaiting my call up to be jabbed.

As an ex-smoker of forty years I choose not to be one of those lecturing others about their choices or espousing the "greater good". The latter is normally a call to arms of the vocal minority as recently demonstrated by a French Mayor banning meat from school dinners (sure Cpt Beaky would like that one).

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