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Bluemilk  
#1 Posted : 24 June 2021 11:52:13(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Bluemilk

hi all

can anyone that runs screening for drugs recommend me a kit? I currently use the drug wipe 5s but at £35 a pop they're expensive. 

thanks in advance. 

Roundtuit  
#2 Posted : 24 June 2021 12:09:09(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Roundtuit

You could always remove the policy if the costs of operation were not correctly budgeted..

Roundtuit  
#3 Posted : 24 June 2021 12:09:09(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Roundtuit

You could always remove the policy if the costs of operation were not correctly budgeted..

peter gotch  
#4 Posted : 24 June 2021 12:12:27(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
peter gotch

Bluemilk - what are you trying to screen for and why?

As Roundtuit implies may be you could just stop doing it.

Bluemilk  
#5 Posted : 24 June 2021 13:53:59(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Bluemilk

Originally Posted by: peter gotch Go to Quoted Post

Bluemilk - what are you trying to screen for and why?

As Roundtuit implies may be you could just stop doing it.

Hi peter, we screen for drugs such as cannabis, ecstacy, cocaine as we use heavy machinery and HGV's. Of course we back up any non-negatives with a laboratory call out. 

peter gotch  
#6 Posted : 25 June 2021 11:55:13(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
peter gotch

Hi Bluemilk

Possibly time to reevaluate the benefits of Drug (and Alcohol) testing for those who are not doing defined "safety critical" work.

Not seen any recent research that would undermine the conclusion of previous research that doing D&A testing for other people has little value from a health and safety perspective whilst potentially causing HR issues due to the "Big Brother" effect.

thanks 1 user thanked peter gotch for this useful post.
A Kurdziel on 25/06/2021(UTC)
A Kurdziel  
#7 Posted : 25 June 2021 13:31:42(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
A Kurdziel

Yes Blue milk, you mention various illegal drugs but does your policy also include  alcohol and medication both of which can have a detrimental effect on safety?  

Evans38004  
#8 Posted : 25 June 2021 13:35:00(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Evans38004

Pedestrians working in close proximity to HGVs and heavy machinery whilst under the influence of either drugs or alcohol surely increase the risk to themselves & others / operators & using a suitable D&A policy as a deterrent must be commendable - IMHO

I've used saliva based multi-drug tests from a reputable high-street pharmacy (think safety footwear) that are much cheaper - OK for 1st screening and then back up "issues" with a lab / professional OH service

Roundtuit  
#9 Posted : 25 June 2021 14:11:59(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Roundtuit

Following ERICPD you could do it the correct way and Isolate the pedestrians from the traffic rather than relying upon a Disciplinary D&A policy.

thanks 2 users thanked Roundtuit for this useful post.
A Kurdziel on 28/06/2021(UTC), A Kurdziel on 28/06/2021(UTC)
Roundtuit  
#10 Posted : 25 June 2021 14:11:59(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Roundtuit

Following ERICPD you could do it the correct way and Isolate the pedestrians from the traffic rather than relying upon a Disciplinary D&A policy.

thanks 2 users thanked Roundtuit for this useful post.
A Kurdziel on 28/06/2021(UTC), A Kurdziel on 28/06/2021(UTC)
Evans38004  
#11 Posted : 25 June 2021 15:00:18(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Evans38004

I agree with Roundtuit - ERICPD.

Offer support / advice as per your D&A policy & if this fails - E is for eliminate (from the worforce) before they harm themselves / others 

peter gotch  
#12 Posted : 26 June 2021 10:54:35(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
peter gotch

Evans

"Pedestrians working in close proximity to HGVs and heavy machinery whilst under the influence of either drugs or alcohol surely increase the risk to themselves & others"

Yes, but so do many other factors. The jury is out on the benefits of D&A testing in scenarios other than designated "safety critical" environments, where the law dictates that such testing is done.

As to your take on ERICPD, it is an interesting one, though I have never been much of a fan of acronyms.

Eliminate the problem worker is the sort of solution that is popular (for some) in authoritarian regimes. 

However, the "principles of prevention" (what used to be called the "hierarchy of control") set out in the Management of Health and Safety at Work Regulations 1999, are perhaps a little more kind to humans.

So, it is always preferable, assuming that it is reasonably practicable, to deal with an "unsafe condition" before homing in on "unsafe behaviour".

"Pedestrians working in close proximity to HGVs and heavy machinery whilst under the influence of either drugs or alcohol surely increase the risk to themselves & others".

Would you agree that your sentence is still valid if the words in yellow are removed?

If yes, then the first question is why pedestrians are working in close proximity to HGVs and heavy machinery, not "are they (or plant operators) under the influence of whatever substance (including medication)?"

Evans38004  
#13 Posted : 28 June 2021 09:21:27(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Evans38004

Brief anecdote:

 

When I was in my late teens / early twenties, we used to catch a bus to the local town to enjoy the Saturday night entertainment. If we indulged too much, we would have to walk the 7+miles home.

One Sunday morning, one of my mates had walked about a mile when he realised that there was a car (potential lift home) coming up behind him. He jumped out, the car stopped, and he had the lift.

The following week, he told us what happened and a few hours later, one of us (not me) found himself in a similar situation, as the car approached, he jumped out and inevitably fractured his right leg in the collision.

Did the amount of alcohol consumed affect the judgement of the individual and his perception of risk and normally safe actions? Of course, it did!

 

You can engineer, and or proceduralise your risks to a normally “safe condition” – however, if a member of your workforce is under-the-influence then, whether they are driving 20T wagon around site, or operating heavy machinery, or walking as a pedestrian in close proximity to these – they will increase the risk.  

 We have always adopted D&A policies that endeavour to support persons with issues, control those who have occasional hangovers, but also be prepared to take more forceful action with those that cannot conform – before they hurt themselves or others. IMHO this is an effective deterrent when used as part of a complete D&A policy.

A Kurdziel  
#14 Posted : 28 June 2021 10:16:54(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
A Kurdziel

So you have a drugs and alcohol policy; great, and you agree  that someone under the influence of either can be a danger to others and themselves  at work: super.

But then things get complicated. Many drugs testing kits will detected the presence of things like cannabis long after the person has “sobered up” . What is you policy then? Do you still apply a disciplinary approach because what they are doing is illegal(unless they have been away somewhere where it is not) or what?

Personally I am more worried about the people I see in the morning going onto building sites while finishing off their cans of Special Brew, than the possibility that someone had a dodgy smoke a few days earlier.

 

Bluemilk  
#15 Posted : 28 June 2021 10:17:20(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Bluemilk

Originally Posted by: A Kurdziel Go to Quoted Post

Yes Blue milk, you mention various illegal drugs but does your policy also include  alcohol and medication both of which can have a detrimental effect on safety?  

Hi of course it does, i was just asking for cost effective screening for drugs but they arent th eonly thing we cover in policy and test for in employees in a safety critical role.

we also have strict non pedestrian areas on site but again, I was just asking what people use for screening. 

Edited by user 28 June 2021 10:24:26(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

stevedm  
#16 Posted : 30 June 2021 08:19:33(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
stevedm

...we have only ever done pre-work screening for safety critical staff...all others rely on supervisor/ manager identification and external testing...all of our drugs testing is done independantly....you could amend your policy to reflect the greater empahsis on supervisor/ manager training and remove your site part and include it as part of pre-start medical.

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