Welcome Guest! The IOSH forums are a free resource to both members and non-members. Login or register to use them

Postings made by forum users are personal opinions. IOSH is not responsible for the content or accuracy of any of the information contained in forum postings. Please carefully consider any advice you receive.

Notification

Icon
Error

Options
Go to last post Go to first unread
Eddie Caballo  
#1 Posted : 11 January 2023 09:08:51(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Eddie Caballo

Hi all,

I've recently been asked to help with a risk assessment for workshop technicians driving customer vehicles that have motability adaptations. Backstory is that a few times now technicians have got it wrong and drove through workshop walls. Technicians generally drive the vehicle from the customer car park into the workshop, and back again. I'm trying to come up with some control measures but I'm stumped. Can anyone help?

Motability cars can be adapted in unique ways to suit the disability of the driver. This might be left pedal acceleration, rotating knobs on the steering wheel, press button braking etc.

As far as I can tell there is no standardisation of modification, hence I can think of no specific training that would be a useful control measure.

How can we make reduce the risk of accidents when the techs drive these cars? Does anyone have any experience in this area? Any advice appreciated!

A Kurdziel  
#2 Posted : 11 January 2023 10:07:26(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
A Kurdziel

Ok

Lets ask the question why the technicians are getting it wrong and driving the modified cars through walls?

Is it because they are unaware that the car has been modified and are assuming that the controls still work as normal. In that case you need to make sure that they are aware of this: some sort of notice that clearly informs them that the car has been modified. It needs to be obvious and clear. Could they just be forgetting (a skill based  error) then again, they need a not so gentle reminders that  the vehicles are not standard? In particular they need to stop and think before they drive off.  

thanks 1 user thanked A Kurdziel for this useful post.
Eddie Caballo on 11/01/2023(UTC)
peter gotch  
#3 Posted : 11 January 2023 11:12:39(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
peter gotch

Hi Eddie

Interesting question and not one I have had to deal with before.

What you don't want is a big notice permanently in the car which would be liable to cause the user embarrassment.

So, may be big instructions is block letters on whatever paperwork is given to the technicians and may be a big notice put on the passenger seat.

But, perhaps above all, more time to do the job. So that the technician feels comfortable in taking two or three times as long to move the vehicle in and out of the workshop.

Which means possibly looking at what incentives there are to do the job super quickly and adjust the parameters so that quality comes before speed of work. Ultimately NOT driving through walls is going to be a financial winner!

thanks 2 users thanked peter gotch for this useful post.
Eddie Caballo on 11/01/2023(UTC), A Kurdziel on 11/01/2023(UTC)
PDarlow  
#4 Posted : 11 January 2023 11:33:35(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
PDarlow

Why not make an addition to your process and ask the customer what adaptions have been made upon receipt of the vehicle and have that information available to the technician?

thanks 2 users thanked PDarlow for this useful post.
Eddie Caballo on 11/01/2023(UTC), Pirellipete on 12/01/2023(UTC)
Eddie Caballo  
#5 Posted : 11 January 2023 12:07:15(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Eddie Caballo

Originally Posted by: A Kurdziel Go to Quoted Post

Ok

Lets ask the question why the technicians are getting it wrong and driving the modified cars through walls?

Is it because they are unaware that the car has been modified and are assuming that the controls still work as normal. In that case you need to make sure that they are aware of this: some sort of notice that clearly informs them that the car has been modified. It needs to be obvious and clear. Could they just be forgetting (a skill based  error) then again, they need a not so gentle reminders that  the vehicles are not standard? In particular they need to stop and think before they drive off.  

Thanks! The technicians are aware that the vehicles have been adapted.

The issue we believe is a lack of familiarity with the controls. A good example is where the brake and accelerator pedals are switched as the normal driver has a weak leg. Think back to the trick bicycle at the funfair where the front wheel does the opposite of what you do to the handlebars - practically impossible to ride even though you know what you should do!

If it's a skill based error then what is the skill they are lacking? And how do we give them the skill to drive every possible adaptation of motability controls?

It appears to be more of a lapse in concentration or when under pressure to make a snap decision i.e. I'm accelerating towards the wall, what do I do? Naturally you slam on the brake, however if the pedals are switched this doesn't work. Or if both the brake and accelerator are controlled by handles on the dash you have the same issue of having to consciously think about what to do, then it's normally too late.

Still not sure what to do about this...

Roundtuit  
#6 Posted : 11 January 2023 12:30:09(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Roundtuit

I would suggest a crib sheet on the dashboard upon receipt of the vehicle - though maybe not a schematic that could be miss-interpreted (Independence Day as Will Smith attempts to fly the UFO from the area 51 hanger).

Also a hand brake on (vehicle in neutral or Park) press of the pedals when getting in:

- pedal travel resistance = Brake

- engine revs increasing = Accelarator

- no apparent response = Clutch pedal

The technician could then have an aide memoir on the dash to counter the C B A orientation learned in manual vehicles

Roundtuit  
#7 Posted : 11 January 2023 12:30:09(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Roundtuit

I would suggest a crib sheet on the dashboard upon receipt of the vehicle - though maybe not a schematic that could be miss-interpreted (Independence Day as Will Smith attempts to fly the UFO from the area 51 hanger).

Also a hand brake on (vehicle in neutral or Park) press of the pedals when getting in:

- pedal travel resistance = Brake

- engine revs increasing = Accelarator

- no apparent response = Clutch pedal

The technician could then have an aide memoir on the dash to counter the C B A orientation learned in manual vehicles

A Kurdziel  
#8 Posted : 11 January 2023 13:55:50(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
A Kurdziel

By skills based errors I am referring to the model created by Jens Rasmussen’s 3 levels of performance.

The model says that most of the time when people carry out routine tasks they are not really thinking, just automatically applying the skills they have learnt, for example driving. This means that if they  are presented  with something different, they forget and apply the wrong skill set, even though they have been told the car has modified controls. One of the things I was implying but it took Peter to say clearly is that the technical staff  and their managers must appreciate that driving these modified cars is not easy and they have to be given time to do it right.

In case you are interested the other levels are:

  • Rules based-inadvertently applying the wrong rules. Note here they know the cars are modified but forget to follow the right rules
  • Knowledge where someone thinks hard about something  but still gets it wrong due to  a gap in their knowledge
thanks 2 users thanked A Kurdziel for this useful post.
peter gotch on 11/01/2023(UTC), HSSnail on 12/01/2023(UTC)
grim72  
#9 Posted : 12 January 2023 10:37:28(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
grim72

I'd suggest the most obvious solution would be to ask the driver when dropping off about the adaptions and if there is anything outside of the norm/with potential to cause driving errors you could ask if you can take a video (or take notes) to show safe operation - technicians could then watch the video before starting up as a way of familiarity training? You could leave a dashboard display sign to advise techicians of the risk and to seek advice/access to notes before getting into the vehicle.

HSSnail  
#10 Posted : 12 January 2023 10:44:52(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
HSSnail

Originally Posted by: A Kurdziel Go to Quoted Post

By skills based errors I am referring to the model created by Jens Rasmussen’s 3 levels of performance.

/quote]

I have actualy been guilty of this myself. A number of years ago i bought an automatic car - having driven manual cars for over 20 years! My wife still had a manual car and after driving teh auto for just a couple of months i was taking the manual car for a service. Approaching a set of red traffic lights i started to break - but the car did not slow as quickly as i expecetd. Was in a bit of a panic and grabed the hand break as well. This caused the car to stall. Fortunatly i did not hit anyone. It was then i realsied i had not depressed the clutch so the drive was fighting the break! I haved been very careful since then when i swap between cars to remind myself when im in the manual that i have the clutch. Showed me just how easy it is for us to carry out automic actions.

I dont think there is an easy answer to this other than  cehcking each car before you drive it.

Roundtuit  
#11 Posted : 12 January 2023 13:40:27(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Roundtuit

Originally Posted by: grim72 Go to Quoted Post
ask the driver when dropping off about the adaptions and if there is anything outside of the norm/with potential to cause driving errors

For it to be "out of the norm" you need to establish what is "in the norm"

After several years of driving an automatic (manual licenced) I spent many weeks before I finally got back in to not stalling a manual at stops & lights.

Roundtuit  
#12 Posted : 12 January 2023 13:40:27(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Roundtuit

Originally Posted by: grim72 Go to Quoted Post
ask the driver when dropping off about the adaptions and if there is anything outside of the norm/with potential to cause driving errors

For it to be "out of the norm" you need to establish what is "in the norm"

After several years of driving an automatic (manual licenced) I spent many weeks before I finally got back in to not stalling a manual at stops & lights.

FHS  
#13 Posted : 12 January 2023 14:36:11(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
FHS

Would the driver have access to the "vehicle handbook" that would have been provided to the owner when they purchased the vehicle, that could be shared with your technicians? This would provide them with a reference to the vehicle and driving adaptations that have to be considered when they move the vehicles.

Roundtuit  
#14 Posted : 12 January 2023 16:02:16(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Roundtuit

Originally Posted by: FHS Go to Quoted Post
to the "vehicle handbook" ..... when they purchased the vehicle

Manufacturers are increasingly moving to on-line handbooks and where provided they are for the "as-built" vehicle coming from the plant and do not cover any post-production motability alterations.

Roundtuit  
#15 Posted : 12 January 2023 16:02:16(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Roundtuit

Originally Posted by: FHS Go to Quoted Post
to the "vehicle handbook" ..... when they purchased the vehicle

Manufacturers are increasingly moving to on-line handbooks and where provided they are for the "as-built" vehicle coming from the plant and do not cover any post-production motability alterations.

Alan Haynes  
#16 Posted : 12 January 2023 19:09:56(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Alan Haynes

Looking at the problem from another direction (or making a wild suggestion). Could you use car dollys/skates to move the cars around without driving them?
thanks 3 users thanked Alan Haynes for this useful post.
johnc on 12/01/2023(UTC), AVELICAN on 13/01/2023(UTC), firesafety101 on 12/06/2023(UTC)
A Kurdziel  
#17 Posted : 12 June 2023 09:27:31(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
A Kurdziel

The Spam has gone but my email remains!

Edited by user 13 June 2023 08:04:36(UTC)  | Reason: How do I delete this

thanks 2 users thanked A Kurdziel for this useful post.
RVThompson on 12/06/2023(UTC), Roundtuit on 12/06/2023(UTC)
firesafety101  
#18 Posted : 12 June 2023 11:04:45(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
firesafety101

I am fully aware and understand this issue as we have 2 adapted cars on the path.  Both adaptations are different and they both take some time to use properly and safely.

The car adaption company always provide a printed manual explaining the adaptions and how they work.  This may be placed inside the glove box if the technitions look.  Otherwise the dealer should ask for it when booking the service.

One adaption has kept the original controls so I drive the car as normal but the other is different.  There is a pedal protector plate to stop the pedals being used and the accelerator is a Ring fitted inside the steering wheel.  The brake is a lever on the steering column and hand operated.  Experience has told me that hand operating the brake needs lots of practice.  Lost count of the times my wife made my head wobble ha ha. 

The steering should not be adjusted as it is attached to the foot pedals but they still adjust it despite a notice on the dash.

thanks 1 user thanked firesafety101 for this useful post.
peter gotch on 13/06/2023(UTC)
firesafety101  
#19 Posted : 13 June 2023 10:42:56(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
firesafety101

Just to add, our motability vehicles are both collected by the dealer for services and MOT, they drive them to their respective service centre and hand the keys to reception.  I think they then have the responsibility to ensure they pass on any adaptation information.

Acorns  
#20 Posted : 14 June 2023 10:14:00(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Acorns

Several options : manage which technicians work on these vehicles, use pilot style checklists before it’s moved, team wide training / awareness. Cars hitting walls in those types environments shouldn’t result in knocked over walls- perhaps it has been techs being silly! Consider cameras for remote supervision and safety.
CaptainWobr  
#21 Posted : 19 June 2023 17:51:18(UTC)
Rank: New forum user
CaptainWobr

Good day, friends. If you are interested in learning more about cars, I want to share with you a discovery I recently made. I found a great site called avandacar.org that has a lot of helpful articles about cars. One of my favorite articles was about how to properly prepare your car for the winter season. Thanks to this article, I learned about the need to replace winter tires and check the heating system in the car.

Roundtuit  
#22 Posted : 19 June 2023 19:53:31(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Roundtuit

Sorry Captain we dont appreciate hyperlinks - reported

thanks 4 users thanked Roundtuit for this useful post.
RVThompson on 20/06/2023(UTC), peter gotch on 20/06/2023(UTC), RVThompson on 20/06/2023(UTC), peter gotch on 20/06/2023(UTC)
Roundtuit  
#23 Posted : 19 June 2023 19:53:31(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Roundtuit

Sorry Captain we dont appreciate hyperlinks - reported

thanks 4 users thanked Roundtuit for this useful post.
RVThompson on 20/06/2023(UTC), peter gotch on 20/06/2023(UTC), RVThompson on 20/06/2023(UTC), peter gotch on 20/06/2023(UTC)
TallPaul  
#24 Posted : 23 June 2023 12:32:04(UTC)
Rank: New forum user
TallPaul

You could consider the use of hydraulic skids? Eliminating the need to drive the adapted vehicle from the car park to workshop and back. But are skids suitable to cover the distance you need to cover, can they be used on road or does it have to be workshop smooth? Can they break/slow down if it goes down a ramp? Perhaps there is a system out there that suits? Just a thought. 

firesafety101  
#25 Posted : 23 June 2023 14:37:25(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
firesafety101

You could employ Formula 1mechanics to use the skids, they will reduce the time taken moving vehicles.

Didn't there used to be Friday funday or something similar ;-)

Users browsing this topic
Guest
You cannot post new topics in this forum.
You cannot reply to topics in this forum.
You cannot delete your posts in this forum.
You cannot edit your posts in this forum.
You cannot create polls in this forum.
You cannot vote in polls in this forum.