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Glassy84  
#1 Posted : 10 February 2025 17:57:46(UTC)
Rank: New forum user
Glassy84

Hi All I am of the impression that a spray booth spraying solvents would come under DSEAR and Confined space regulations. Obviously without LEV it would be flammable and hypoxic environment INDG 237 does touch on this but I can not find anything to confirm the space is 2m cubed approximately does anyone have a view on this or am I being a bit over zealous.
Roundtuit  
#2 Posted : 10 February 2025 19:08:19(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Roundtuit

Overzealous miss-reading of requirements.

thanks 2 users thanked Roundtuit for this useful post.
HSSnail on 11/02/2025(UTC), HSSnail on 11/02/2025(UTC)
Roundtuit  
#3 Posted : 10 February 2025 19:08:19(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Roundtuit

Overzealous miss-reading of requirements.

thanks 2 users thanked Roundtuit for this useful post.
HSSnail on 11/02/2025(UTC), HSSnail on 11/02/2025(UTC)
HSSnail  
#4 Posted : 11 February 2025 08:27:17(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
HSSnail

Agree not a confined space - i was part of the HSE/LA task force that looked at paint spraying in teh car industry about 15 years ago. At that time many were moveing away from Isocanyte paint to water based as a sfer option. The booths were becomeing more important for the drying of the paint rather than COSHH - you dont say what you are sparying so not sure about explosive atmosphere, and I dont know how far the car industry got with this.

Ian Bell2  
#5 Posted : 12 February 2025 11:42:42(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Ian Bell2

DSEAR if flammable paints used. Zone 1 around the painter then Zone 2 for the rest of the spray booth. However if its a small spay booth, it might be better to call the whole booth a Zone 1. It makes little practical difference.

Confined space - no.

chris42  
#6 Posted : 12 February 2025 16:46:23(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
chris42

Are you all sure it is not to be considered a confined space . L101 seems to disagree.

14 A place not usually considered to be a confined space may become one if there is a change in the conditions inside or a change in the degree of enclosure or confinement, which may occur intermittently. For example, an enclosed space may be free of contaminants and have a safe level of oxygen but the work to be carried out in it may change this, such as:

(a) welding that would consume some of the oxygen;

(b) a spray booth during paint spraying; or

(c) using chemicals for cleaning purposes which can add contaminants.

John Elder  
#7 Posted : 13 February 2025 10:42:33(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
John Elder

2m³ is quite a small spray booth especially if totally enclosed. E.g. with a door for entry as opposed to be an open booth with permanent opening. The standard giving you all the information you require for both liquid and powder booths is BSEN 16985 (2018) Spray booths for organic coating material Safety Requirements.

Regarding DSEAR even if artificially ventilated you will need to calculate the release rate of liquid into the both and the ventilation rate to identify the hazardous zone. This calculation is in Annex C of the above standard and is for calculating the average concentration of flammable substances.

If the ventilation rate of the booths achieves a concentration threshold limit value for solvents within the booth of ≤25% Lower Flammable Limit (LFL) it is a Zone 2, if it is >25% and ≤50% LFL it is a Zone 1 therefore you need to do the calculation and know your ventilation rate to apply the correct hazardous zone.

In regard to L101 the word spray booth only appears once in the context mentioned above however according to the spray booth safety requiements there is no reference to confined space risk mentioned and that standard is for all significant hazards, hazardous situations and hazardous events relevant to spray booths for the applicaton of organic liquid  and powder coating materials, when they are used as intended and under the conditions foreseen by the manufacturer including reasonably foreseeabel misuse. 

It therefore it appears that confined space is not recognised as a significaint hazard regarding the use of spray booths which is what i would expect and have never come across one managed or recognised as a confined space.

thanks 4 users thanked John Elder for this useful post.
Roundtuit on 13/02/2025(UTC), peter gotch on 13/02/2025(UTC), toe on 13/02/2025(UTC), HSSnail on 18/02/2025(UTC)
chris42  
#8 Posted : 13 February 2025 15:57:59(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
chris42

Yes, the HSE document only mentions it as an example in L101, but do consider it as a possibility. The OP also states they are spraying solvents not paint in something about the size of an old-fashioned telephone box (for those of us old enough to remember them), perhaps a bit shorter that a phone box. So, rescue would be natural if the person fell over, they would likely fall out the door as it has to open outwards or they would never get in.

The HSE also make a single reference to confined space in this one also.

https://www.hse.gov.uk/construction/healthrisks/hazardous-substances/spraying.htm

 Hence, I though the OP was right not to necessarily dismiss it without a little thought.

Chris

Roundtuit  
#9 Posted : 13 February 2025 16:22:14(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Roundtuit

Chris you are making an assumption that a "booth" automatically has a door.

I viewed this from my experience of a hood style arrangement with three or fewer sides and open operator entry.

It is primarily car repair shops who adopt what is a room in which spraying is conducted.

Roundtuit  
#10 Posted : 13 February 2025 16:22:14(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Roundtuit

Chris you are making an assumption that a "booth" automatically has a door.

I viewed this from my experience of a hood style arrangement with three or fewer sides and open operator entry.

It is primarily car repair shops who adopt what is a room in which spraying is conducted.

peter gotch  
#11 Posted : 13 February 2025 16:57:29(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
peter gotch

Hi Glassy

I think this is an example of many scenarios where it might be better to think about the risks and appropriate precautions rather than to focus on exactly which legislation might apply.

Whilst not directly comparable it seems to me that a spray booth might be considered along similar lines to a place that would be categorised NC4 under Water UK guidance. Occasional Guidance Note: The Classification & Management of Confined Space Entries (2019) | Water UK

In normal operation one needs to control the fire/explosion risk and any occupational health risks, with the focus typically being on suitable local exhaust ventilation and in some circumstances supplementing that with RPE.

Suppose you have those risks adequately controlled (inclusive of means of dealing with an emergency event), I can't see anyone with an ounce of common sense grilling you about what you are doing about a notional confined space risk.

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A Kurdziel on 14/02/2025(UTC), chris42 on 14/02/2025(UTC)
chris42  
#12 Posted : 14 February 2025 09:45:50(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
chris42

Originally Posted by: Roundtuit Go to Quoted Post

Chris you are making an assumption that a "booth" automatically has a door.

I viewed this from my experience of a hood style arrangement with three or fewer sides and open operator entry.

It is primarily car repair shops who adopt what is a room in which spraying is conducted.

Yes, I admit I was assuming an enclosed space as he quoted the size as 2m cubed, a very defined volume. I admit my past experience of spraying was not on a small scale, it was much bigger than that required for a car and required a permit from the LA.

We obviously don’t know exactly what the OP is doing other than spraying solvents for some reason.

Chris

toe  
#13 Posted : 17 February 2025 17:31:06(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
toe

The DSEAR has already been covered, so I have nothing to add regarding this. The confined space may be one of those cases regarding the spirit of the law rather than the letter of the law. For example, as Chris has already stated, the L101 ACOPS could be construed as a spray booth being applicable to the regs. I recognise that modern car paints are water-based; however, occasionally, solvent-based paints are used, and paint thinners can be added to the paints. In addition, sometimes solvent-based gun cleaners are used in the spray booth.

A spray booth is a space used all the time with known hazards, and you wouldn’t normally have controls such as entry permits, positive communications, gas monitors or emergency oxygen rescue supplies like you would for non-routine confined space entry. It’s the same as you wouldn’t issue hot work permits in a welding workshop, where routine hot work and known risks occur. But you would issue a permit if a welder were to go to a worksite, for example.

I have been involved in car body shops and spray booths for many years and have never considered them confined spaces (to the extent of the confined space legislation).

In essence, the most significant risk in body shops/accident repair centres is the paint mixing room, where solvents are used, and these rooms are small.

thanks 1 user thanked toe for this useful post.
HSSnail on 18/02/2025(UTC)
HSSnail  
#14 Posted : 18 February 2025 12:06:29(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
HSSnail

My reason behind saying not a confined space was that the conditions in the Spay Booth will be normal and so so would simply be a standard Risk Assessment and Method Statement/Safe System of work. I would usually only apply the specifics of Confined Spaces Regs where the specific hazard you are looking at is not always going to be there. If you look at L101 it talks about a permit to work for entering a confined space - are you going to do that for every use of a spray booth? I think L101 gives some good guidance about what the RA should cover, but as others have said does it need to be classified as a Confined space to do that? Certainly when i was part of the HSE/LA inspection team on car spary booths we did not consider them confined spaces, but i an happy to accept that in some situations you may need/want to do so.

A Kurdziel  
#15 Posted : 18 February 2025 17:16:36(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
A Kurdziel

Surely the issue with a confined space is that there is risk of being trapped inside the confined space with the specified hazard. If you can just step out to safety, then it’s not a confined space by definition. If the spray booth has a door which tend to jam shut then that could be a confined space.

Edited by user 19 February 2025 10:28:37(UTC)  | Reason: terrible spelling and grammar

thanks 1 user thanked A Kurdziel for this useful post.
Kate on 18/02/2025(UTC)
HSSnail  
#16 Posted : 19 February 2025 09:41:30(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
HSSnail

Not just being unable to get out through the door - remember the specified hazards include risk of fire or explosion due to chemicals etc, and asphyxiation. So could have a great big door but the person inside may pass out if the chemical has no smell or be injured and unable to move. Just done what i should have done all along and looked at the ACOP L101 - it specifically mentions spray booths as confined space.

 "some confined spaces (such as those used for spray painting in car repair centres) are used regularly by people in the course of their work."

"b) a spray booth during paint spraying; or (c) using chemicals for cleaning purposes which can add contaminants."

So again i think the issue that tripped me up is that the extra precautions for a confined space i would normally think about (entering a silo for cleaning etc) on a none routine basis are just part and parcel of working in a spay booth.

Ian Bell2  
#17 Posted : 19 February 2025 10:18:13(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Ian Bell2

Paint spray booths aren't confined spaces because, as others have, pointed out - for walk in spray booths etc there is a design standard that effectively mitigates the risks of a confined space. So for new booths no action is required.

Looking at the HSE guidance in the CSWR Acop, you have to stretch the various examples given of confined spaces to include a purpose designed paint spray booth.

Personally I would stick to the traditional image of a confined space - inside tanks/process vessels, sewers, trenches, temporary enclosure (with defined risks) etc.

thanks 1 user thanked Ian Bell2 for this useful post.
A Kurdziel on 19/02/2025(UTC)
HSSnail  
#18 Posted : 19 February 2025 13:24:27(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
HSSnail

Ian so you dispute the two comments i have put in quotation marks which are cut and pasted from the ACOP? I have to say it was a supprise to me as well.

Ian Bell2  
#19 Posted : 19 February 2025 16:50:18(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Ian Bell2

PAra 20 of the confined spaces ACOP gives a list of confined spaces examples. In true HSE fashion they give the usual open ended catch all statment that there may be other examples of confined spaces.

Note that spray booths are not mentioned in the list at para 20. Ultimately if you wanted to, just about any indoor work space could be classed as a confined space if the right circumstances are present.

All that I can repeat I don't know anybody that classifies a purpose designed spray booth as a confined space, I certanly don't

John Elder  
#20 Posted : 20 February 2025 08:39:23(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
John Elder

It we look logically at the ACOP L101 and apply the conditions for a confined space Regulation 1 tells us that a confined space is:

 “any place, including any chamber, tank, vat, silo, pit, trench, pipe, sewer, flue, well or other similar space in which, by virtue of its enclosed nature, there arises a reasonably foreseeable specified risk”

So based on the above we now look at what they consider specified risk which is defined as means a risk of:

(a) serious injury to any person at work arising from a fire or explosion;

(b) without prejudice to paragraph (a) — (i) the loss of consciousness of any person at work arising from an increase in body temperature;

(ii) the loss of consciousness or asphyxiation of any person at work arising from gas, fume, vapour or the lack of oxygen;

(c) the drowning of any person at work arising from an increase in the level of liquid; or

(d) the asphyxiation of any person at work arising from a free flowing solid or the inability to reach a respirable environment due to entrapment by a free flowing solid

Regulation 1 Para 12 states

Under these Regulations a ‘confined space’ must have both of the following defining features:

(a) it must be a space which is substantially (though not always entirely) enclosed; and

(b) one or more of the specified risks must be present or reasonably foreseeable.

Now to be honest due to the ventilation rates in a typical spray booth it is unlikely anyone would become unconscious or be asphyxiated by the fumes and vapour although that doesn’t mean they are not exposed and can become ill.

To capture this occurrence Regulation 1 Para 14 & 15 captures this event and is what in my experiance a lot of companies refer to as a "Potential Confined space".

Regulation 1 Para 14: A place not usually considered to be a confined space may become one if there is a change in the conditions inside or a change in the degree of enclosure or confinement, which may occur intermittently. For example, an enclosed space may be free of contaminants and have a safe level of oxygen but the work to be carried out in it may change this, such as:

(a) welding that would consume some of the oxygen;

(b) a spray booth during paint spraying; or

(c) using chemicals for cleaning purposes which can add contaminants.

15 In such cases the space may be defined as a confined space while that work is ongoing and until the level of oxygen recovers or the contaminants have dispersed by ventilating the area.

The important word here is May which in legal speak “May” indicates possibility or permission, so there is a possibility that it could be considered as confined space, and you have permission should you wish to define it as such.

However, this is not the same as Should which suggests a recommendation or what is considered as the right thing to do e.g. in health and safety law arguments what is considered as the reasonable person argument.

So as there is a possibility that it could be a confined space you have permission to call and manage it as shuch should you wish to do so. However, it could be considered that a reasonable person would not managed or defined it as such in the eyes of the law.

thanks 1 user thanked John Elder for this useful post.
A Kurdziel on 20/02/2025(UTC)
John Elder  
#21 Posted : 20 February 2025 09:26:52(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
John Elder

To clarify the interpertution of May in leagal jargon to help clarify my previous post I have copied a brief interperation from legal doctrun below.

1. Introduction

As well as rules which forbid certain actions or impose certain duties, all modern legal systems include power-conferring rules, which grant rights without imposing norms of behaviour. The distinction between obligations and rights is commonly expressed in statutory language, as in ordinary speech, through the use of modal verbs.

In English statutes, shall is normally used to impose an obligation, while may is generally used to confer a discretionary or enabling power. This use is illustrated uncontroversially, for example in “A local authority may within their district [...] construct a public sewer [...].” (Public Health Act 1936 s15[1]) [my emphasis] 1

The modal verb is here seen as conferring a right, rather than as imposing an obligation. The question occasionally arises as to whether in particular circumstances the holder of the power, in this case the local authority, could be legally obliged to act under the relevant statute, and if so whether and in what sense enabling expressions like may could then be said to impose a duty.

Various courts have held that in certain circumstances there may indeed be an obligation to exercise a statutory discretion. In such cases, the statutory may is said to have a coercive meaning similar to must. Surprisingly, this is the first sense given under ‘may’ in Stroud’s Judicial Dictionary (Stroud: 1986). This reference book gives as synonyms various other legal expressions normally used to grant a discretionary power, including ‘it shall be lawful’, and ‘shall hereby have power’.

Where shall occurs in such contexts, it does not have the effect of creating a new legal obligation or duty, but functions as part of an enabling expression to create a new legal power. Linguists commonly accept that expressions literally signifying permi ssion can be used to imply an obligation.

However, they would be reluctant to accept the more radical claim implicit in the relevant judgments, that, under certain conditions, may can be understood, in its literal meaning, as including not just a permissive but also a coercive sense.

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