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Svick1984  
#1 Posted : 27 February 2025 13:45:54(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Svick1984

Hi all,

Now that COSHH E-tool has been discontinued, does anyone know of any other online tool or have a form or anything else that can be used in a similar manner to COSHH E-tool? If not, please can anyone suggest the easiest way to do so going forward?

Thanks.

Kate  
#2 Posted : 27 February 2025 15:15:15(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Kate

The COSHH Essentials tool implemented a process described in a document called, if I remember correctly,  the Technical Basis of COSHH Essentials, which as far as I know you can still get on the HSE website.  This document essentially gives an algorithm for the assessment. So you start with a table in which you can look up which hazard codes give you which hazard classes, and then there are tables about vapour pressure and quantities. It is possible but laborious to follow it just as it is (I have done this).  Someone with coding skills would quite easily be able to replicate the tool.

thanks 1 user thanked Kate for this useful post.
Svick1984 on 28/02/2025(UTC)
Svick1984  
#3 Posted : 28 February 2025 06:09:13(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Svick1984

Originally Posted by: Kate Go to Quoted Post

The COSHH Essentials tool implemented a process described in a document called, if I remember correctly,  the Technical Basis of COSHH Essentials, which as far as I know you can still get on the HSE website.  This document essentially gives an algorithm for the assessment. So you start with a table in which you can look up which hazard codes give you which hazard classes, and then there are tables about vapour pressure and quantities. It is possible but laborious to follow it just as it is (I have done this).  Someone with coding skills would quite easily be able to replicate the tool.

I don't suppose you know someone who has replicated the tool (in the manner you described), do you? I can use some formula's in excel, but I doubt I could replicate it myself.

Kate  
#4 Posted : 28 February 2025 07:26:31(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Kate

No, I don't - but I wouldn't be surprised if someone has.

There have long been paid-for online "COSHH assessment" systems that do much the same thing but with padded out, colourful outputs and sold with hyped up claims about compliance.  They don't really do much more than the free tool did, but they try to give every appearance of being a whizzy way to guarantee COSHH compliance (which of course they can't).

thanks 2 users thanked Kate for this useful post.
A Kurdziel on 28/02/2025(UTC), peter gotch on 28/02/2025(UTC)
chris42  
#5 Posted : 28 February 2025 10:45:09(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
chris42

Could you still use it via the wayback machine? Though is its information out of date?

Chris

Svick1984  
#6 Posted : 05 March 2025 09:30:16(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Svick1984

Originally Posted by: chris42 Go to Quoted Post

Could you still use it via the wayback machine? Though is its information out of date?

Chris


Thanks Chris. However, what is the wayback machine please?

Svick1984  
#7 Posted : 05 March 2025 09:39:52(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Svick1984

Originally Posted by: Svick1984 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: chris42 Go to Quoted Post

Could you still use it via the wayback machine? Though is its information out of date?

Chris


Thanks Chris. However, what is the wayback machine please?

Nevermind, I found it. However, I'm not sure it works (or I certainly couldn't get it to).

Are there no other options? Thanks.

A Kurdziel  
#8 Posted : 05 March 2025 09:55:18(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
A Kurdziel

What did the e-tool actually do? Amazingly,  I have never used it because where I have worked we always started from first principles and like Kate I have always been suspicious of anything that claims to do the risk assessment (ie the thinking) for you.  

Svick1984  
#9 Posted : 05 March 2025 10:08:21(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Svick1984

Originally Posted by: A Kurdziel Go to Quoted Post

What did the e-tool actually do? Amazingly,  I have never used it because where I have worked we always started from first principles and like Kate I have always been suspicious of anything that claims to do the risk assessment (ie the thinking) for you.  


Well it just helped giving a starting point with control measures by assessing the process being carried out, what type of substance (i.e. solid or liquid), it's risk phrases or hazard statements, it's dustiness or volatility, how often/for how long the task is carried out and how much is used.

What method do you normally use if you don't use the e-tool, if you don't mind me asking?

Thanks.

chris42  
#10 Posted : 05 March 2025 11:06:18(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
chris42

Sorry it was worth a try. I have not used it myself so I looked to see if there was something to download. However when I got to the old (2022) last saved version it was an all online thing, so could not be downloaded. It looked like it may still work on the net, but I didn't try it.

As I said worth a try as people were using it up to the end of Jan.

Perhaps IOSH would like to create their own version? 😁

Chris

thanks 1 user thanked chris42 for this useful post.
Svick1984 on 05/03/2025(UTC)
Svick1984  
#11 Posted : 05 March 2025 11:49:45(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Svick1984

Originally Posted by: chris42 Go to Quoted Post

Sorry it was worth a try. I have not used it myself so I looked to see if there was something to download. However when I got to the old (2022) last saved version it was an all online thing, so could not be downloaded. It looked like it may still work on the net, but I didn't try it.

As I said worth a try as people were using it up to the end of Jan.

Perhaps IOSH would like to create their own version? 😁

Chris


No it's ok, I really appreciate the suggestion. If I don't have that option, then I'm going to have to figure out a new way to do it (would be nice if IOSH did their own, yes!). Thanks.

A Kurdziel  
#12 Posted : 05 March 2025 13:17:04(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
A Kurdziel

Hi

As I said we start from first principles. We are a university, so I hope that people understand the scientific background and of course they use some niche substances.  So basic risk assessment: what is the hazardous nature of the substances in the process? Solid, gas, powder or liquid. Is the powder granular or fine and dusty ? Who’s at risk? Any one with health issues such as asthma or are they pregnant?  Then look at the likelihood of exposure: how much is being used and how often. What process is the stuff being used for? Is it being mixed or blended or heated etc.

What are the exposure routes? Apply the hierarchy of controls.  If they say I will use LEV, you can ask which LEV it has been tested is it suitable etc.   if they say the will use RPE then you ask why? Is it  something out of the ordinary if you rely on PPE rather than isolating the procedure in a fumecupboard etc. then record and review.

Svick1984  
#13 Posted : 05 March 2025 14:13:12(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Svick1984

Originally Posted by: A Kurdziel Go to Quoted Post

Hi

As I said we start from first principles. We are a university, so I hope that people understand the scientific background and of course they use some niche substances.  So basic risk assessment: what is the hazardous nature of the substances in the process? Solid, gas, powder or liquid. Is the powder granular or fine and dusty ? Who’s at risk? Any one with health issues such as asthma or are they pregnant?  Then look at the likelihood of exposure: how much is being used and how often. What process is the stuff being used for? Is it being mixed or blended or heated etc.

What are the exposure routes? Apply the hierarchy of controls.  If they say I will use LEV, you can ask which LEV it has been tested is it suitable etc.   if they say the will use RPE then you ask why? Is it  something out of the ordinary if you rely on PPE rather than isolating the procedure in a fumecupboard etc. then record and review.

Thanks for the response. The thing is, based on the risk phrases or hazard statements, the E-tool would already tell you what hazard group it fell into and along with knowing how approximately how much you were using, it would also then be able to tell you what types of controls you can use (or are recommended; I understand it was never meant to be the entire method). I'm not entirely sure how to make that calculation. 

Svick1984  
#14 Posted : 06 March 2025 10:53:46(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Svick1984

Originally Posted by: Svick1984 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: A Kurdziel Go to Quoted Post

Hi

As I said we start from first principles. We are a university, so I hope that people understand the scientific background and of course they use some niche substances.  So basic risk assessment: what is the hazardous nature of the substances in the process? Solid, gas, powder or liquid. Is the powder granular or fine and dusty ? Who’s at risk? Any one with health issues such as asthma or are they pregnant?  Then look at the likelihood of exposure: how much is being used and how often. What process is the stuff being used for? Is it being mixed or blended or heated etc.

What are the exposure routes? Apply the hierarchy of controls.  If they say I will use LEV, you can ask which LEV it has been tested is it suitable etc.   if they say the will use RPE then you ask why? Is it  something out of the ordinary if you rely on PPE rather than isolating the procedure in a fumecupboard etc. then record and review.

Thanks for the response. The thing is, based on the risk phrases or hazard statements, the E-tool would already tell you what hazard group it fell into and along with knowing how approximately how much you were using, it would also then be able to tell you what types of controls you can use (or are recommended; I understand it was never meant to be the entire method). I'm not entirely sure how to make that calculation. 

Does anyone know who might offer such a course to help working out the calculations such as STEL and WEL's, hazard classification etc? The E-tool did a lot of the work for me, and I feel I need more training on it now that the resource isn't there. I've tried contacting BSC and whilst they do a COSHH course, it doesn't cover what I need. Thanks.

Roundtuit  
#15 Posted : 06 March 2025 14:39:25(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Roundtuit

You could try the Chemical Hazards Communication Society

https://chcs.org.uk/chemical-hazards-training​​​​​​​

thanks 2 users thanked Roundtuit for this useful post.
Svick1984 on 07/03/2025(UTC), Svick1984 on 07/03/2025(UTC)
Roundtuit  
#16 Posted : 06 March 2025 14:39:25(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Roundtuit

You could try the Chemical Hazards Communication Society

https://chcs.org.uk/chemical-hazards-training​​​​​​​

thanks 2 users thanked Roundtuit for this useful post.
Svick1984 on 07/03/2025(UTC), Svick1984 on 07/03/2025(UTC)
peter gotch  
#17 Posted : 06 March 2025 15:55:13(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
peter gotch

Hi Svick

Part of the problem is going to be working out what to do when somebody is exposed to multiple hazardous substances.

Looking at it VERY simplistically suppose employee A is exposed to solvents and lead.

How these enter the body and then impact on it are largely different, so you could mostly assess each individually. But I wrote "largely" and if you are in borderline territory perhaps you need to consider the potential interaction much more closely.

However, if we change the scenario such that employee A is exposed to solvent G and solvent H, it is likely that the impacts are additive, so you need to work out what proportion of the Workplace Exposure Limit (or STEL etc etc) they are liable to get from G, the same for H.

So suppose their exposure is at 0.75 of the WEL for solvent G, and 0.5 of the WEL for solvent H, you might be within the WEL for each, but would exceed the notional WEL for the mix of hazardous substances if you add up the fractional exposures in each case as a proportion of the WEL for each. 0.75 + 0.5 = 1.25 = problem!!

Then there is the even more complex scenario of "synergistic" mixtures of exposure, where rather than adding each fraction together you apply a multiplier.

Perhaps the most commonly quoted example is someone exposed to asbestos who also smokes cigarettes (or similar). 

Lots of research to indicate what proportion of workers exposed to V fibres/ml asbestos in air for 40 hours a week for many years are likely to then sustain one or more respiratory health conditions.

Ditto research to tell you the likelihood of someone smoking say 20 cigarettes a day for many years sustaining one or more respiratory health conditions.

However, if the exposure is to both the risk is much greater than simply adding together the numbers for each individual contaminant.

If you have such a scenario then the former COSHH e-tool probably wouldn't have given you an adequate assessment of the overall risk.

That took might have been OK for very simple scenarios preferably with only one contaminant to consider, but would be unlikely to produce the required "suitable and sufficient" assessment in more complex situations.

thanks 1 user thanked peter gotch for this useful post.
Svick1984 on 07/03/2025(UTC)
Svick1984  
#18 Posted : 07 March 2025 10:13:03(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Svick1984

Originally Posted by: Roundtuit Go to Quoted Post

You could try the Chemical Hazards Communication Society

https://chcs.org.uk/chemical-hazards-training​​​​​​​

Thanks. I'm not a member, but do you happen to know how much the courses cost? 

Svick1984  
#19 Posted : 07 March 2025 10:16:56(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Svick1984

Originally Posted by: peter gotch Go to Quoted Post

Hi Svick

Part of the problem is going to be working out what to do when somebody is exposed to multiple hazardous substances.

Looking at it VERY simplistically suppose employee A is exposed to solvents and lead.

How these enter the body and then impact on it are largely different, so you could mostly assess each individually. But I wrote "largely" and if you are in borderline territory perhaps you need to consider the potential interaction much more closely.

However, if we change the scenario such that employee A is exposed to solvent G and solvent H, it is likely that the impacts are additive, so you need to work out what proportion of the Workplace Exposure Limit (or STEL etc etc) they are liable to get from G, the same for H.

So suppose their exposure is at 0.75 of the WEL for solvent G, and 0.5 of the WEL for solvent H, you might be within the WEL for each, but would exceed the notional WEL for the mix of hazardous substances if you add up the fractional exposures in each case as a proportion of the WEL for each. 0.75 + 0.5 = 1.25 = problem!!

Then there is the even more complex scenario of "synergistic" mixtures of exposure, where rather than adding each fraction together you apply a multiplier.

Perhaps the most commonly quoted example is someone exposed to asbestos who also smokes cigarettes (or similar). 

Lots of research to indicate what proportion of workers exposed to V fibres/ml asbestos in air for 40 hours a week for many years are likely to then sustain one or more respiratory health conditions.

Ditto research to tell you the likelihood of someone smoking say 20 cigarettes a day for many years sustaining one or more respiratory health conditions.

However, if the exposure is to both the risk is much greater than simply adding together the numbers for each individual contaminant.

If you have such a scenario then the former COSHH e-tool probably wouldn't have given you an adequate assessment of the overall risk.

That took might have been OK for very simple scenarios preferably with only one contaminant to consider, but would be unlikely to produce the required "suitable and sufficient" assessment in more complex situations.

Thanks for that. We normally work with few hazardous substances and not any mixtures. Having said, I think what I need is more training in this area, hence why I am looking for a suitable course. If you can recommend one, I'd appreciate it. Thanks.

Svick1984  
#20 Posted : 14 March 2025 11:56:04(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Svick1984

Originally Posted by: Svick1984 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Roundtuit Go to Quoted Post

You could try the Chemical Hazards Communication Society

https://chcs.org.uk/chemical-hazards-training​​​​​​​

Thanks. I'm not a member, but do you happen to know how much the courses cost? 

Bump.

Roundtuit  
#21 Posted : 14 March 2025 14:57:47(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Roundtuit

As I am not an employee or associate of the organisation I have no idea how much their courses cost.

I am aware of them through a previous chemist who authored the comapny SDS was a member.

Best way to find out is to enquire directly with the provider.

Roundtuit  
#22 Posted : 14 March 2025 14:57:47(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Roundtuit

As I am not an employee or associate of the organisation I have no idea how much their courses cost.

I am aware of them through a previous chemist who authored the comapny SDS was a member.

Best way to find out is to enquire directly with the provider.

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